Should Readers Warn the Proof Listener?

[lightcrystal]

If I know that a chapter is going to contain offensive language, vulgarities etc should I tell the Proof Listener in advance? Especially if the DPL doesn't follow along with the text.

[Availle]

Personal opinion:
FFS.
Everybody is "triggered" these days, by everything, so... if you want to have trigger warnings, there's no ending to that.
Just a few days ago, I saw a warning for "offensive language" - in a dance performance.

Our books are 95+ years old and come with language and ideas from that time, which makes them outdated at best.
If our members (and in further consequence, our listeners) don't get that, there's not much help for them.

Also, I see LV as a library, it is not our job to comment on - or judge in hindsight - what we have on our shelves.
We do have some books with warnings for offensive content (mostly for assorted racism), however, such warnings should be used sparingly so as not to become completely meaningless.

This is an old one from a literary agent and not really relevant here, but it resonates with me:
https://jetreidliterary.blogspot.com/2021/08/trigger-warnings-in-queries.html

[lightcrystal]

I am narrating a book that is 376 years old. Let's say that back then they did some very weird things. You seriously would not be able to have lunch if I told you.

[Availle]

Which one - the Christian Astrology?

Well, with that title, there's not much surprise to what you're getting yourself into.

[lightcrystal]

Which one - the Christian Astrology?

Well, with that title, there's not much surprise to what you're getting yourself into.

You don't know.
There are surprises

1647 astrology wasn't always Christian

[Availle]

I would venture that astrology isn't Christian, no matter what era.

[DACSoft]

I 100% agree with Ava's first post above. People should have some understanding of the time period, locale, values, culture, etc. in which a book was written, and not be surprised upon reading something that may be offensive to some in the 21st century, but not necessarily when the author wrote the book.

The only time I ever include a disclaimer regarding content with the ebooks I submit to PG, or the books I record, are those which the author themselves had included in the book.

FWIW,

[lightcrystal]

I would venture that astrology isn't Christian, no matter what era.

Actually that is a very big topic. I have thought about who was in 1647 William Lilly's "market" for his book?

Lilly was a worldly man. He liked money. He formed friendships with many high ranking political powerbrokers of his era. He thanked them in his book. Thus he seemed to be writing for educated people that included church people. I do not think that Christianity and astrology were necessarily an antagonistic dichotomy in the 1600s.

Of course what IMHO makes Christian Astrology a fascinating book is that the 1600s was a stew pot of crises: astronomy and science that astrology used was changing.
BTW there is also a biography of William Lilly in Project Gutenberg. I probably won't do it because it has a lot of Latin. But if someone can handle the Latin then you can do it! Lilly's life in man y ways was pretty horrific. I won't go into detail. But ick he had bad times.

[annise]

Or that their Christianity was practiced in church not real life Anne

[lightcrystal]

Or that their Christianity was practiced in church not real life Anne

Put it this way. Christian angels such as Michael had their astrological aspects such as being ruled by a planet, star sign and so on.

[DariaAM]

If I know that a chapter is going to contain offensive language, vulgarities etc should I tell the Proof Listener in advance? Especially if the DPL doesn't follow along with the text.

If I’m planning to DPL a book, and I am not aware that it has offensive language, YES!, I would want the reader to personally inform me beforehand.
The warning doesn’t have to be official or anything. A side note will suffice. Plus, your prospective proof-listener may be a child. Who knows?

[Beeswaxcandle]

One also has to remember that language evolves through time—including what is considered offensive. For example, the medical terms cretin, moron, and idiot were used widely in the 19th and early 20th centuries to indicate some people's likely IQ range. The words came into common usage as perjorative terms and thus are no longer acceptable in medicine. Lunatic, retardation, and spastic have gone the same way. At the same time words that were considered shocking in the Victorian era (such as "dash", "bloody", and the dreadful "damn") are mostly a part of normal English that nobody even blinks at.

Putting modern sensibilities as an overlay on works written in a different culture (and yes, the so-called Western World of 95 years ago is a different culture to today), is doing a disservice to the authors of the time.

From my perspective, it is up to the person who volunteers to DPL to do their due diligence on the work first. Is there an article on Wikipedia? What does Goodreads say about the book? Amazon reviews?

[annise]

English is even more tricky as different words can be considered offensive in different countries.
But as has been said - this is a library - I disagree strongly with some of the subject matter but I'll defend the right of others to record and listen to it.
Anne

[GettingTooOld]

Trigger warning on this reply: old person who talks a LOT.

One also has to remember that language evolves through time—including what is considered offensive.

you'd be surprised perhaps to know just how old most of our popular offensive language words are. They are old, like really old, like thousands of years if not several hundred each.

Yes, what is considered offensive varies across time as well as place (or space). The cancel culture nuts won't have their way for long, they'll be thrown into oblivion bucket along with all critics.

The rubbish trigger warnings will go out of style soon enough, they can't last and cannot be applied to everything. Like a kid with a label maker, they'll run out of refills. They are only popular for the one or two kids with the label maker. Not everyone has one and certainly not everyone is interested AT ALL.

Other countries with a great many people who speak English really truly don't give a rat's ahhs about wokeness, political correctness (which country is 'correct' again ?) and their libraries are not about to get ravaged or burnt.

Sure, there are a LOT of VHS movies that have FBI warnings at the start, or whatever they copyright stuff was, people just edit that stuff out when it changes format. It was never part of the actual movie. Piracy is outright legal in many countries. A huge nation today in the news is openly encouraging it telling everyone go for it. It's not for everyone but the labels and the warnings and the binding on a book have nothing to do with the work of art.

It's the work of the author which is going to stand the test of time or not. Nothing else matters. Nothing else will last. People remember and revere artists, never ever critics. Shakespeare would have been scandalous at different times through history for different reasons, but you'd have to spend effort to find out about any of it because it is worthless to everyone, people want to hear Shakespeare.

Some people in some places like to have a how to read the bible concordance, and there are a great many to choose from and they are all Ball shoots, nobody will ever care about them outside small, little places and small, little times. It's the bible that people carry on with if that is there thing.

As for telling the DPL about this or that, no, there is not a need or a way to do that. You'd have to have some idea of what the DPL is offended by to be able to warn them about it in the first place. Take me for example, I don't mind swearing so there is no need to warn me about it, but I am triggered by trigger warnings so it's best to warn me that there are warnings on the particular text, unless there are no warnings in which case don't need to warn me.

So to be perfectly clear and understandable about it, only warn me if you're going to warn me, and don't warn me if you're not going to. Other people have different ideas and are triggered by other things, best to ask them, or catalogue everyone on the planet and add separate warnings for all possible triggers, that will get larger than the literary work itself of course, so the best way to do it is just to add the following:

If you get offended by something consider the text of the following book as an abbreviated version of all it's possible trigger warnings. The text of the book is the list in it's shortest possible form. Please read the book first to identify if there is anything that may trigger you and if there is, then don't read the book. If you read the book and find nothing that triggers you, go ahead and enjoy reading the book. Thank you for noticing this notice.