Wikisource, Lovecraft and the Public Domain

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circuitloss
Posts: 9
Joined: February 18th, 2007, 2:51 pm

Post by circuitloss »

Look, I know the H.P. Lovecraft PD/not-PD thing for his post-1923 work has been done to death, but I wanted to bring up an angle I haven't seen covered before.

While Project Gutenberg has mostly avoided Lovecraft, Wikisource has embraced him and now contains his complete works. Is inclusion in this high-profile archive justification enough to read his works on Librivox?

The talk page for that entry contains this question and answer:
I'm quite interested to know how the works of H.P. Lovecraft came to be in Wikibooks: can I now assume some of his works, including The Call of Cthulhu are now in the public domain? If so, I'd be interested to know why they are now in the public domain and what were the original sources for the works included here? --Axon 14:24, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)

A source for publication information for Lovecraft's stories is http://www.dagonbytes.com/thelibrary/lovecraft/. I would also recommend examining the links listed on the article page concerning S. T. Joshi's research. I examined the project Gutenberg compilations of copyright renewal information and could find no references to Lovecraft at all in the records from 1953 to 1967. Although there were a number of renewals by August Derleth, all were for Mr. Derleth's own work. There were no renewal notices whatsoever for Donald Wandrei. If any other supposed copyright holders make themselves known their claims could be examined but until then I think it is reasonable to assume that the copyrights on Mr. Lovecraft's works have expired. -- CSN 02:23, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)
So, what's the deal here? Lovecraft's complete works are available online at a high-profile archive. This does not seem to have been challenged by Arkham house. Snip! (incorrect information)

More explication is available on the author page:
* According to S.T. Joshi's "H.P. Lovecraft: A Life" (pp. 640-641): Much of Lovecraft's work is in the public domain. This is unquestionably so in terms of the tales, essays, and poems published in the amateur press. As for stories published in "Weird Tales", the six that the magazine owned outright should have had their copyrights renewed after twenty-eight years, but repeated searches in the Library of Congress have turned up no renewals of any kind. Of the stories Lovecraft himself controlled, by law only he, his heirs, or his executor could have renewed the rights, but this was never done.

* The University of Pennsylvania has posted a page with scans of copyright records at http://onlinebooks.library.upenn.edu/cce/. These may be reviewed from the convenience of your home, when looking for renewals. Chris Karr has reviewed these documents and has published a report of his findings at http://www.aetherial.net/personal/files/lovecraft_renewals.pdf . In short, there are no copyright records that reference any of Lovecraft's original stories (only the Arkham House compilations), but the copyrights to "Weird Tales" were renewed properly, and works published prior to 1926 (when Lovecraft is thought to have sold full rights to "Weird Tales") in that magazine may be subject to protection IF they were published in "Weird Tales" for the first time. Joshi identifies thirteen works and believes that seven of those thirteen had been published elsewhere previously.
Bear with me here. Can we just call this case closed and start submitting Lovecraft if we can cite evidence that the work is public domain? This would include the majority of his short stories. I'm sure there are a LARGE number of listeners/readers who would love to. The worst case scenario is that Arkham House asks us to take it down, but we'd be in good faith, considering that the general consensus of the Wikimedia project as a whole is for public domain Lovecraft.
Last edited by circuitloss on March 14th, 2007, 5:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
CarlManchester
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Location: UK

Post by CarlManchester »

Think Wikisource has a policy of dealing with anything that is PD somewhere in the world. Not sure whether this is a good or bad policy, but it is different from LibriVox's.

Also, are you sure about the "loss of copyright by failing to protect" idea, (in the US)? Not an expert, but from what I've read it seems to be a legally contentious point whether something can become public domain even by the copyright holder actively waiving their rights.

This link you proivide seems to me to be promising http://www.aetherial.net/personal/files/lovecraft_renewals.pdf , but I'll leave it to others to make a call.

Is that any kind of help? I've no idea.

Thanks,
Carl.
American Psychology 1922-1947. It's the nearest thing to American Psycho that we are allowed to record.
circuitloss
Posts: 9
Joined: February 18th, 2007, 2:51 pm

Post by circuitloss »

CarlManchester wrote:Also, are you sure about the "loss of copyright by failing to protect" idea, (in the US)? Not an expert, but from what I've read it seems to be a legally contentious point whether something can become public domain even by the copyright holder actively waiving their rights.
You're right, I'm wrong. I'm thinking of Trademark law, where diluted trademarks can lose their status.

Still, the WikiMedia Foundation is hosting Lovecraft's complete works. The general consensus seems to be that all but six of Lovecraft's short stories have expire copyrights. I'm still unclear on the status of the novellas, etc., printed by Arkham House. (In the 30s I think.)
kri
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Location: Keene NH
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Post by kri »

Regardless of what anyone is doing with so-called PD or not PD works, or PD works in other places than the US, we really don't care. The work has to be unquestionably in the public domain (you need to provide proof) in the United States. Fortunately for us we can rely on Gutenberg's proof of the PD status of the works they have in their catalog. That's why we use their works so extensively. Also, I believe we have used texts in wikibooks in the past. However, we will only use works that are in wikibooks if they meet the above stated requirement.

I don't think anyone here has said anywhere that H.P. Lovecraft's works are all out of the question, as I'm pretty sure some of it is PD. I think it's just the most popular stuff that isn't.

I hope this clarifies things for you :)
circuitloss
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Joined: February 18th, 2007, 2:51 pm

Post by circuitloss »

I understand perfectly, but color me green with envy at WikiSource.
thistlechick
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Joined: November 30th, 2005, 12:14 pm
Location: Michigan

Post by thistlechick »

Yep, Kri is exactly right... it doesn't matter who puts it on their website, we still need to verify copyright status.

Anything 1922 or earlier is a Go... for anything after 1922 we will consult Project Gutenberg on a case by case basis due to the uncertainty of the copyright renewal status.

FYI: Here's a link to LibriVox's copyright policy =) http://librivox.org/wiki/moin.cgi/CopyrightAndPublicDomain
~ Betsie
Multiple projects lead to multiple successes!
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