SOLO Jesus the Christ by James E. Talmage - tg

[mleigh]

Chapter 4 comments:

4
volume down at least 0.4 dB, , although getting it to around 89 dB would be ideal
8:14 please delete "Jesus is the individual name of the Savior," as it is corrected immediately following at 8:18
16:28 please delete " that ye may feel y-" as it is corrected immediately following "that ye may thrust your hands into my side, and also
that ye may feel the prints"
20:05 text reads "Joseph Smith 2:17" you have "1:17"
missing "end of chapter 4" before the 5 ending seconds of silence

4n filename?, see comments for 3 notes
drop volume at least 0.8 dB, although getting it to around 89 dB would be ideal

[mleigh]

Chapter 5 comments:

5
1:52 text has ""Articles of Faith," xiii:7-10" but you have "p 239-241"
10:37 text has "Luke 23:34" but you have "Luke 23:24"
11:04 text has "Matt. 22:44" but you have "Matt. 24:44"
19:57 text has "BC" but you have "BCE" which was not in use at the time the book was written
20:35 "text has "AD" but you have "CE" which was not in use
25:03 text has "BC" but you have "BCE" which was not in use at the time the book was written
missing "end of chapter 5" before the 5 ending seconds of silence
significant background noise, recommend running noise reduction on this file

5n, filename, see comments on chapter 3
delete 1 second of silence at start
6:36 "text has "AD" but you have "CE" which was not in use
8:58 text has "The Book of Prophecy, by G. Smith, LL.D., p. 320" but you have "... p 310". The reference is also written differently?
9:21 text has "BC" but you have "BCE" which was not in use at the time the book was written
9:36 please delete "at a later" as it is corrected immediately following "at a later stage of the history,"
10:27 long pause mid sentence, please shorten
10:30 text has "BC" but you have "BCE" which was not in use at the time the book was written
10:43 please delete "After the death of Lehi, a division occurred, some of the people
accepting their a" as it is corrected at 10:49 "After the death of Lehi, a division occurred, some of the people
accepting as their leader, Nephi,"
10:56 please delete " who had duly a" as it is corrected immediately following "who had been duly appointed to the prophetic office; "
12:00 please delete "and deg" as it is corrected at 12:01 "and
degenerated into the fallen state"
12:05 please delete "their lit lineal descendants" as it is corrected at 12:08 "their lineal descendants"
12:17 text has " xiv:7, 8" but you have "verses 258 to 260"
12:26 please delete clearing of throat noises"
12:32 please delete "Faith in God the Eternal Father, and in His Son Je" as it is corrected
immediately following "Faith in God the Eternal Father, and in His Son the Savior of Adam and all his posterity"
13:08 please delete "reference" before "end quote"
13:10 please delete "ro reference Moses" as it is corrected "reference Moses 5:58"
13:16 please delete "the prophet E" as it is corrected afterwards "The prophet
Enoch thus testified"
14:19 please delete "quote and it shall come" as it is corrected immediately following "quote And it came to pass"
14:37 please delete "and the Spirit d" as it is corrected immediately following "and the Spirit of God descended upon him"

[TriciaG]

3n filename?? - this is nonstandard, is it acceptable to use?

It will cause errors in the validator during cataloging, but I can rename them all with a couple clicks at that time. So as long as each section points to a working file, we're good.

[RichardSaunders]

In the immortal words of Winnie the Pooh, "oh bother." With apology to the PL, it looks like I uploaded the early chapters from the wrong directory, my fault entirely. The edited files will fix most of that, and I'll fix the errors.

The files for the entire book are complete and ready to be uploaded for PL, but given the PL comments I'd better confirm some practice on my end that were explained in detail in the "reader note." I hoped it would be included with the files but understand doing so counters LibriVox practice. Perhaps all of this can be settled before imposing any more work on anyone. The root issue is that JtC is a book of hundred-year-old practice in scholarly non-fiction. I have talked about this book for years as a professional historian, very aware that disconnects exist between text and reader. The writer is in the past, readers in the present: readers bring their own comprehensions to the book, while the writer employs a double note structure (footnotes and endnotes), incomplete and inconsistent citations to sources, and an incorrect citation to a key version of the Bible.

As a scholar, I'm well aware that the very function of recorded reading imposes its own type of change to the text. Since the work is in public domain, there is no legal barrier to an update. That is done for historical texts all the time--and is expected to be done. My reading follows the text, compensating only for structural things I find many readers don't follow well anyway. Even with those changes, the author's apparatus is now at least standard through the book. I employed the accommodations strategically and feel they should be considered carefully and ought to stand, yet will defer to instructions.

The file names are a nod to my own past experience as a project manager for a scholarly textbook compositor. If they must be changed, then they must, but I don't think it a good idea. The numbering allows the separate chapter and note files to fall in sequence visually as well as structurally. The endnotes in separate files are also a nod to consistency; some chapters are short enough to get text and endnotes into one file within the 72 min limit, but not all of them, so the notes are in separate files. The notes have the ending rather than the chapters, which makes the two files into a single audible one. If that creates a technical problem then a good idea might not work after all.

That leads to a third point: noticing that LibriVox books include a few multiple readings of a single title, I also have on hand a version of the audiobook that drops the footnote references and presents just the narrative text (but includes the endnote files). The system is welcome to it as a separate project, or not, at your discretion.

[TriciaG]

As a scholar, I'm well aware that the very function of recorded reading imposes its own type of change to the text. Since the work is in public domain, there is no legal barrier to an update. That is done for historical texts all the time--and is expected to be done. My reading follows the text, compensating only for structural things I find many readers don't follow well anyway. Even with those changes, the author's apparatus is now at least standard through the book. I employed the accommodations strategically and feel they should be considered carefully and ought to stand, yet will defer to instructions.

I assume this is referring to the BC/BCE and such changes. Our text policy is to not change the text. Usually this comes up when texts have racial terms that are offensive today; even for those we don't change the text but read it purely as published in the edition we use. So no, we don't make changes to modernize it or otherwise compensate for the author or publisher's faults.

The file names are a nod to my own past experience as a project manager for a scholarly textbook compositor. If they must be changed, then they must, but I don't think it a good idea. The numbering allows the separate chapter and note files to fall in sequence visually as well as structurally. The endnotes in separate files are also a nod to consistency; some chapters are short enough to get text and endnotes into one file within the 72 min limit, but not all of them, so the notes are in separate files. The notes have the ending rather than the chapters, which makes the two files into a single audible one. If that creates a technical problem then a good idea might not work after all.

Okay, since you have good reason to want the file numbers the way you've made them, I can work with this. It'll give me an error message in the cataloging system, but I can work my way around that.

That leads to a third point: noticing that LibriVox books include a few multiple readings of a single title, I also have on hand a version of the audiobook that drops the footnote references and presents just the narrative text (but includes the endnote files). The system is welcome to it as a separate project, or not, at your discretion.

The different versions in our catalog are not the same reader, but different readers who have chosen to do their own version of the work. We don't catalog different versions by the same reader. So it's your choice whether you want us to catalog the version with the end notes, or the one without, but we won't do both. That said, you can upload the other version to Archive.org yourself, and we'd be happy to link to it in the description for you. And on that one you can make your scholarly updates (such as BC/BCE) since it's your own additional version.

[RichardSaunders]

Well then, I have some editing to do to put back in BC/AD. Of more concern is the citations, which will likely have to be re-recorded because of the inconsistencies. I think the best version for LibriVox to post would be the full version with the references, even though that is a bit more difficult to listen to. The other version without the notes will get the same crx, audio cleanup, and uploaded separately, as you suggest.

Would you prefer I upload the files for PL now or wait till everything is back into textual order in the audio files? Can do either.

[TriciaG]

Change everything that needs changing, then upload. That way the DPL doesn't have to listen through twice more on each file.

[TriciaG]

Are you still with us and working on this?

[RichardSaunders]

I am, but priority has been given to reading a recent book of mine for the publisher. Recording for that one is done and I'm editing, but the term has also begun again, so classes get priority priority. Mea culpa. Finding time to re-listen to the whole work to catch the reversions to the old note format just requires time that is rather scarce right now--but it will get done. Not forgotten nor given up.

[RichardSaunders]

Me, again. Used the weekend to update notes and clean up files. Assuming the MC gets to the bottom of this long missive and agrees, will start posting files for PL later this weekend.

A couple of updates affecting the audio: most importantly, I've lost access to the university's digital recording system used for the book. I can edit existing files but can no longer record to match; for instance, I cannot reconstruct the citation in ch.3 note 3. Mind you, the audio citation to the “Conference Report” is actually correct, since that is the name of the conference publication series. Being unable to re-record may complicate further changes to the audio files, so in addition to what was addressed last year I'd better confirm some slight departures from the printed work. I've privately read scholarly books and textbooks for students beginning in the 1980s, and the practices described here are consistent with audio conventions when I read textbooks for the blind.

First, I confessed earlier that note callouts were selectively repositioned in the text for pure listening sense. That hasn't changed. Beyond that, this is a work of religious scholarship, but one published before standard citation formats had evolved. This is also the sixth edition of the work. That imposes some challenges because unlike a novel, the work's references and notes are full of abbreviations--and inconsistent abbreviations. For instance:
1) Each scriptural book title is abbreviated.
2) For the Works of Josephus, one note might cite "B. J." for the Latin title while another in the same chapter might cite "Wars." in English, where both refer to the same work, just an inconsistence between changes to editions.
3) It took me awhile to figure out, but I discovered that the Project Gutenberg citations differ from the actual edition of the book from which I read. I can’t explain the Project’s text but the citations to this title in the recording match the published edition rather than the textual transcription, so there will be seeming inconsistencies.
4) In scattered places, like ch.30 n.1, the author drops in an author name alone as a “citation” without any other reference to what it is. Readers get visual clues about stylistic conventions like parentheses which are entirely lacking for listeners.
5) “Joseph Smith 2” (e.g., ch.4 note h) makes no sense to listeners, since the book is titled “Joseph Smith-History.”
6) Recurring citations to a non-existent book title. This work was produced before new scholarly versions of the Bible were common. The author uses a personal idiom for one other edition of the Bible that was known even in his day as the "Inspired Version." He uniformly misdescribes it as the "revised version" without any citation ever directly referring to the Bible. In no other contemporary or subsequent scholarship is that edition described or cited by Talmage's idiom.

Obviously this all presents problems—particularly because people will listen to this work carefully and do their best to follow the notes. As a teacher myself, there seems little sense in replicating inconsistencies carefully if doing so means the text cannot be understood clearly and intelligibly. Here is what I have done and recommend be allowed to stand:
1) abbreviations (mostly scriptural book names) are read out rather than pronounced or spelled as abbreviations.
2) Read out the common English title of the section cited: “Wars of the Jews” or “Antiquities of the Jews.”
3) Read all references in a form to match the most commonly available edition.
4) Insert the book title following the author name.
5) Cite the title with which listeners are familiar.
6) Replace the unintelligible title citation with a title with which listeners are familiar.

Further, another concession to listening experience is dropping internal page references. There are no pages and references to nonexistent content for the sake of textual purity seems nonsensical. The note callouts remain in place with the caveat noted above.

These accommodations might not be an abstract textual fidelity but I recommend that departures from the printed text stand to make the recording credible to listeners. Again, this is not a novel, which can employ outdated language without too much interruption. As a work of scholarship, I feel strongly . The church keeps the book in print, so readers may see the sixth edition text but they will be familiar with the book with modern note forms.

All other changes required by the PL have been made: per instructions, I've eliminated the full citations my editorial heart craves and gone back to the notes as printed (with the exceptions above); each file has been checked for background noise (didn’t realize it was picking up our furnace); ch. 5 notes are properly edited (abject apology; I posted the raw file); and the audio has been uniformly adjusted in the files to be about 3db under distortion levels.

[TriciaG]

I think your proposed citation handling is okay. For example, there are other projects in which citations are read fully, rather than reading them as abbreviations.

I'm good with all you propose. The only problem is that the DPL won't necessarily know that B. J. means "The Wars of the Jews" unless you list all such modifications for her to reference.

[RichardSaunders]

(show of ignorance) How do I do that properly? Still figuring out the system, or trying to.

[TriciaG]

You could just list them here in a post. It's probably best, if not too much work, to make it section-specific (only point out the ones used in each file, so the list doesn't get overwhelming).

[RichardSaunders]

Acknowledging and with grateful thanks to mleigh's effort here as PL, I've uploaded the entire set of files for Jesus the Christ, chapters 1-42, with notes and the front matter.

In terms of what follows, I've rolled all this past the BC, TriciaG, who suggested providing a chapter-by-chapter summary about inconsistencies between the audio and text. Overall, note communications in the project thread dated 2023 Nov 19 and 2024 Jan 31. The list of issues by chapter is in a separate post.

Overall:
* For the sake of file consistency, chapter text and endnotes are in separate recordings. Some might fit together into a single file less than the 72min limit, but I've read them in two files in a way that they will play as if they are one file. In essence, the required opening is at the beginning of each chapter, with the closing at the end of the notes. I've done that so listeners can delete the notes easily, if they choose.
* All PL crx to ch.1-5 have been made and new files are uploaded. Sorry there were so many I did not catch. I'm glad you did.
* Though I can't otherwise explain why, there are some inconsistencies in references between the printed book (from which I read) and the Project Gutenberg text. Ironically, the inconsistencies are references to the author's other books. I've followed the author's original text as printed. The link to text file in the MW gives you my PDF reading files from the edition used. Tangentially, I've marked up in color the references for reading, and you'll see in the notes anything dropped from reading (see next).
* The words “end of chapter” are dropped from in-text references to endnotes.
* Internal page references are dropped (because there are no pages in an audiobook).

The next post sets out quirks by chapter. Unless listed there, a chapter and its notes files should present no complications.

[RichardSaunders]

For ch.1-30 and notes

ch. 2 This chapter is the first where abbreviations to scriptural volumes (B. of M. for Book of Mormon, and P. of G. P. for Pearl of Great Price) are dropped, so that a scripture reference is read directly to book, chapter, and verse, like Biblical citations. This is followed for all later chapters. Reference i is the first instance the writer refers to himself unhelpfully as “the author” when citing his other works; here and thereafter I've inserted his surname “Talmage” in place of “the author's” for clarity.

ch. 3 endnotes The citation concluding note 3 is corrected to the name of the actual publication rather than the description given in the note.

ch. 6 The section title is filled out from the abbreviation.

ch. 8 endnotes I think I fixed the citation in note 3; citation in note 5 is filled out with correct data.

ch. 20 In reference m the author refers to a “revised version” of the Bible. The book was written before most of the modern Bible editions were in the future, so the non-specific reference makes no sense to current readers. I've substituted the common reference to Joseph Smith's “Inspired Version.” Shows up a few times in later chapters as well (incl. 27 [x, e], 28 [f, j] and endnotes 6,

ch. 22 Reference t refers to “Joseph Smith 2”, which is correctly known and is read as the “Joseph Smith History”. The second reference m points to another chapter by page, and I've read in the chapter number.


ch. 27 endnotes In note 5 I moved the reference from the end to where it was mentioned, and in note 7 I added a title to a citation for clarity.

ch. 28 note b cites different spellings for a Jewish month, which I tried to pronounce rather than spell. See what you think.