What level of fluency is required to read in other languages?

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Inkell
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Post by Inkell »

Question is in the title, I was curious about what level of fluency is necessary to read for other languages. Being primarily English-speaking I figure other languages probably have a more limited pool of volunteers, I'm not fluent in any other languages but I do have some experience with two, one I've been trying to learn and one I took in high school. The former I definitely couldn't read for yet but maybe in the future if I improve enough and the latter I might be able to read for now depending on the skill requirements? It's hard to tell, hence my curiosity for when your language skill is good enough or if it'll be good enough and it's only really supposed to be for native speakers
annise
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Post by annise »

Same applies as for all languages - accents do not matter, you just need to be understandable by a native speaker.

Anne
Inkell
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Post by Inkell »

annise wrote: July 12th, 2022, 8:18 pm Same applies as for all languages - accents do not matter, you just need to be understandable by a native speaker.

Anne
Okay, but how do you know if you're understandable to a native speaker?
SowasVon
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Post by SowasVon »

Inkell wrote: July 13th, 2022, 2:56 am Okay, but how do you know if you're understandable to a native speaker?
One of us foreign-language native speakers will proof-listen to your recording.
... at least that's how it's been in my previous non-English projects.
"You're on Librivox? Pffft. You just like to hear yourself talk."
"Yuuuup." :mrgreen:
Inkell
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Post by Inkell »

SowasVon wrote: July 13th, 2022, 3:04 am
Inkell wrote: July 13th, 2022, 2:56 am Okay, but how do you know if you're understandable to a native speaker?
One of us foreign-language native speakers will proof-listen to your recording.
... at least that's how it's been in my previous non-English projects.
So there isn't really any way to tell prior to just volunteering and risking not being good enough?
SowasVon
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Post by SowasVon »

Inkell wrote: July 13th, 2022, 3:35 am So there isn't really any way to tell prior to just volunteering and risking not being good enough?
My personal suggestion - not a standard procedure or anything:
If you've found a project for which you'd like to record, you could post in there mentioning your interest and your concern that you might not be comprehensible and ask whether the project's proof-listener might be willing to check out a snippet of you reading from that text first.
They might just help you and even tell you where to upload the test audio.
"You're on Librivox? Pffft. You just like to hear yourself talk."
"Yuuuup." :mrgreen:
Kitty
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Post by Kitty »

Inkell wrote: July 12th, 2022, 4:33 pmI do have some experience with two, one I've been trying to learn and one I took in high school. The former I definitely couldn't read for yet but maybe in the future if I improve enough and the latter I might be able to read for now depending on the skill requirements?
may I ask what two languages you are referring to ?

And it depends how long ago your high school has been and how many years you practiced in school, whether your teacher was a native speaker or not, and whether you kept practicing the language learnt or you completely forgot it again after years of not using it anymore. With newly acquired languages it can happen very fast as I know from experience.

I would suggest choosing a very short text or poem in those languages and submitting them to the multilingual project: viewtopic.php?f=60&t=92080 That way you won't have put in too much work, as the poem would be short, like a minute or so. And you could get feedback on whether it's understandable.

Please post the link to the online text before you start recording, so we can make sure the source text is in the public domain and your work won't be in vain.

Sonia
Inkell
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Post by Inkell »

To SowasVon: ironically that is what I had considered doing initially but I worried it'd be inappropriate or would like offend them so I decided to make it a more general question but I might try that if you think it's a good idea.

To Kitty: Arabic and Spanish, Arabic is the one I've been trying to learn and Spanish is the one I took in high school. I'm definitely not advanced enough in Arabic yet, speaking I find very difficult and I can only currently read it with vowel lines (apart from some words I knew well enough) anyway which most texts don't seem to have unless it's specifically for learners. Spanish is the one I've considered reading for now, I took it for five years in high school which was a little over a decade ago. I don't think any of the teachers were natives, the first teacher I had was really amazing though and she did a lot of exercises to drill in the basics and pretty much all of what she taught I can remember, it was one of my favorite subjects and speaking it was my favorite part. Then we moved so I had to change schools, the second teacher was okay but the last teacher (and the one I got stuck with for longest) was awful, she not only expressly disliked me but she just had us copy out of textbooks and didn't do any of the exercises the others did to really practice or remember what we were learning and as a result that stuff I don't remember as much so my Spanish vocabulary is kind of stunted, I feel like I succeeded in spite of her though and got a B overall and an A specifically for speaking but I've never had to use Spanish outside of that and never with native speakers so I don't know how well it'd come across, I also was taught European Spanish not Latin American Spanish. I haven't had much opportunity to practice it since then unfortunately but I do sometimes challenge myself to read like Spanish comments on youtube or watch something in Spanish to see how much I can understand, I actually thought this would be a good opportunity to practice it because I did really enjoy it and wouldn't mind improving (assuming I would up up to par, obviously the quality is most important). Anyways sorry for the essay, hope this answers your questions
Kitty
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Post by Kitty »

Inkell wrote: July 13th, 2022, 4:58 amArabic is the one I've been trying to learn and Spanish is the one I took in high school. I'm definitely not advanced enough in Arabic yet, speaking I find very difficult and I can only currently read it with vowel lines (apart from some words I knew well enough) anyway which most texts don't seem to have unless it's specifically for learners.
ah yes I see...on a hunch I would say, Arabic would be too difficult to read at this point. Especially since the public domain texts are much older, need to be published before 1926, so I am guessing the language and script would be daunting even for native speakers, and definitely too much for a beginner. (unless you're a language genius)
Spanish is the one I've considered reading for now, I took it for five years in high school which was a little over a decade ago.
still fresh enough, this is definitely to be considered I would say.
I've never had to use Spanish outside of that and never with native speakers so I don't know how well it'd come across, I also was taught European Spanish not Latin American Spanish. I haven't had much opportunity to practice it since then unfortunately but I do sometimes challenge myself to read like Spanish comments on youtube or watch something in Spanish to see how much I can understand
if you listen to youtube and understand it, you get a good practice of pronunciation as well
I actually thought this would be a good opportunity to practice it because I did really enjoy it and wouldn't mind improving (assuming I would up up to par, obviously the quality is most important).
I would suggest you try it, in the multilingual or in one of the Spanish projects, maybe with a short text so you could do it in a short time and prepare the text well in advance.

Then, if you are unsure about pronunciation, I could suggest: speak slowly and enunciate clearly, even if a word is a bit "off", native speakers would probably guess at the meaning. People often make the mistake that they think if they speak very fast and mumbled, they will sound more like locals, but bottom line is: it's only harder to understand.

And you are right, LV is a good place to rekindle your love for Spanish. :9: Maybe you also want to participate as prooflistener to a Spanish project, that way you also get more practice in hearing the pronunciation.

I would say: just dare :mrgreen:

Sonia
Inkell
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Post by Inkell »

Yes agreed about the Arabic, for the heck of it I checked the only outstanding Arabic project and I could not read that yet. I have also been learning Modern Standard Arabic which might differ from the older Arabic these texts would use.

I can understand parts of it on youtube, I can usually semi-follow written comments and can only understand parts of videos which I think is partially because of speakers talking quickly and partially like I said my stunted vocabulary, often for me it's like hearing/seeing 'I liked UNKNOWN-WORD because of UNKNOWN-WORD, this was a fun movie.'

The only ongoing Spanish project still accepting readers I could see is 'Memorias de un vagon de ferrocarril' (case and point, I don't know what a ferrocarril is) and the shortest segment for that was 800 words which still seems like a lot, if you think it's a good idea though maybe I could still try it, explain the situation to the people running that project and see what they think. As a worst case scenario I suppose even if they tell me it's the worst most incomprehensible Spanish they ever heard then they can reassign it and at least I'll know where I stand haha.

I'll bear that in mind about the pronunciation, makes a lot of sense.

I'm not sure I'd be good at proof-listening, I'd get to hear pronunciation but I also wouldn't know know if something is wrong outside of the words I'm familiar with and even then I wouldn't know if its a Latin American Spanish thing. In general I also have a weirdly hard time listening to something unless I'm doing something else but then my full focus isn't on it so I don't know if I'd miss a mistake. I'll think about it though.

Thanks for all your help!
ShiNeko
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Post by ShiNeko »

Inkell wrote: July 13th, 2022, 7:41 am The only ongoing Spanish project still accepting readers I could see is 'Memorias de un vagon de ferrocarril' (case and point, I don't know what a ferrocarril is) and the shortest segment for that was 800 words which still seems like a lot, if you think it's a good idea though maybe I could still try it, explain the situation to the people running that project and see what they think. As a worst case scenario I suppose even if they tell me it's the worst most incomprehensible Spanish they ever heard then they can reassign it and at least I'll know where I stand haha.
Hello! I'll burst into your conversation. :roll: We also have a Multilingual Monthly Poem. Most of the time there are Spanish translations of a chosen poem. Like right now with Testament we have the Spanish translation too. The good thing about it is that you can also listen to the native speaker who recorded the same poem and it may help you with your recording. If you find it interesting I'll be happy if you join the project.☺️

BTW, there are two English translations open for recording too. :wink:
~Anastasiia
Multilingual Monthly Poem like Weekly Poetry but for all languages🗺
Сборник рассказов Л. Андреева
"Кобзар" Шевченко several short roles: "Гайдамаки", "Великий льох" 🎭
Inkell
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Post by Inkell »

ShiNeko wrote: July 13th, 2022, 10:03 am
Hello! I'll burst into your conversation. :roll: We also have a Multilingual Monthly Poem. Most of the time there are Spanish translations of a chosen poem. Like right now with Testament we have the Spanish translation too. The good thing about it is that you can also listen to the native speaker who recorded the same poem and it may help you with your recording. If you find it interesting I'll be happy if you join the project.☺️

BTW, there are two English translations open for recording too. :wink:
Hi! I'm a bit confused by how the monthly poems things work to be honest so I just kind of ignored them, it looks like someone has already done the Spanish translation anyway?
ShiNeko
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Post by ShiNeko »

Inkell wrote: July 13th, 2022, 10:35 am Hi! I'm a bit confused by how the monthly poems things work to be honest so I just kind of ignored them, it looks like someone has already done the Spanish translation anyway?
Yeah, it is recorded, but for this project we are seeking for as many recordings by as many readers as possible. It is similar to English Weekly/Fortnightly Poetry Projects in which many readers record the same chosen poem, but this project is for all languages together (except English translations are open for the first one to record, if it is already recorded you can see "occupied" beside the link to the English translation). That is why I mentioned that if a native/fluent speaker have already recorded in some language, it can help another volunteer who is learning the language to make its own recording. Moreover, you even have links to English translations ready for you to help you understand the poem in Spanish (they are of course not exact word to word translactions, but the meaning it still there).

Here are what we did so far:
An Invitation to a Journey
The Conflict
~Anastasiia
Multilingual Monthly Poem like Weekly Poetry but for all languages🗺
Сборник рассказов Л. Андреева
"Кобзар" Шевченко several short roles: "Гайдамаки", "Великий льох" 🎭
Inkell
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Post by Inkell »

ShiNeko wrote: July 13th, 2022, 10:42 am
Inkell wrote: July 13th, 2022, 10:35 am Hi! I'm a bit confused by how the monthly poems things work to be honest so I just kind of ignored them, it looks like someone has already done the Spanish translation anyway?
Yeah, it is recorded, but for this project we are seeking for as many recordings by as many readers as possible. It is similar to English Weekly/Fortnightly Poetry Projects in which many readers record the same chosen poem, but this project is for all languages together (except English translations are for the first one to record). That is why I mentioned that if a native/fluent speaker have already recorded in some language, it can help another volunteer who is learning the language to make its own recording.

Here are what we did so far:
An Invitation to a Journey
The Conflict
Oh right okay, in that case I'd be happy to do it! It's shorter and native speakers can see where I stand, being able to listne to the other Spanish recording might also be helpful. And I'll take the English 3 translation as well because I'm outside the UK, I think it'd be kinda interesting to compare my English and Spanish versions
ShiNeko
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Post by ShiNeko »

Inkell wrote: July 13th, 2022, 10:50 am Oh right okay, in that case I'd be happy to do it! It's shorter and native speakers can see where I stand, being able to listne to the other Spanish recording might also be helpful. And I'll take the English 3 translation as well because I'm outside the UK, I think it'd be kinda interesting to compare my English and Spanish versions
Oh, the third English one is already occupied but no can do if you're outside the US, I'm a generous one and just let you record it. :lol:
~Anastasiia
Multilingual Monthly Poem like Weekly Poetry but for all languages🗺
Сборник рассказов Л. Андреева
"Кобзар" Шевченко several short roles: "Гайдамаки", "Великий льох" 🎭
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