SOLO [FINNISH] Satuja ja tarinoita I by H. C. Andersen - kaz

[Cygnaeus]

Satuja ja tarinoita I, by Hans Christian Andersen (1805 - 1875), translated by Maila Talvio (1871 - 1951)

Kokoelma H. C. Andersenin satuja. Suomentanut Maila Talvio. Kokoelman julkaisi WSOY vuonna 1914. (Summary by Tuomas Lebedeff)

Source text (please read only from this text!): https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/53484

Target completion date: 2022-08-01

Prooflistening level: Standard
Prospective PLs, please see the Guide for Proof-listeners.

IMPORTANT - soloist, please note: in order to limit the number of languishing projects on our server, we ask that you post an update at least once a month in your project thread, even if you haven't recorded anything. If we don't hear from you for three months, your project may be opened up to a group project if a Book Coordinator is found. Files you have completed will be used in this project. If you haven't recorded anything yet, your project will be removed from the forum (contact any admin to see if it can be re-instated).

Please don't download or listen to files belonging to projects in process unless you are the BC or PL. Our servers are not set up to handle the greater volume of traffic. Please wait until the project has been completed. Thanks!

Magic Window:

BC Admin
LibriVox recording settings: mono (1 channel), 44100 Hz sample rate, 128 kbps constant bit rate MP3. See the Tech Specs

Intro to recording:
Leave 0.5 to 1 second of silence at the beginning.

For the first section, say:

"Satuja ja tarinoita I: [Section Cardinal Number] satu: [Section Title], kirjoittanut Hans Christian Andersen, suomentanut Maila Talvio. Tämä on LibriVox - äänite. Kaikki LibriVox -äänitteet ovat julkista omaisuutta. Lisätietoja saadaksesi, tai ilmoittautuaksesi vapaaehtoiseksi, mene osoitteeseen librivox.org. Lukijana toimii Tuomas Lebedeff. Satuja ja tarinoita 1, Hans Christian Andersen, [Section Cardinal Number] satu: [Section Title]."

For the second and subsequent sections, you may use the shortened intro if you wish:

"Satuja ja tarinoita I: [Section Cardinal Number] satu: [Section Title], kirjoittanut Hans Christian Andersen, suomentanut Maila Talvio. Tämä LibriVox-äänite on julkista omaisuutta. [/i]"

End of recording:
Say:

"[Section Cardinal Number] sadun loppu."

If you are recording the final section of the book, add:

"Kirjan 'Satuja ja tarinoita I' loppu, kirjoittanut Hans Christian Andersen, suomentanut Maila Talvio. Lukijana toimi Tuomas Lebedeff."

Leave 5 seconds of silence at the end.

Filename: satujajatarinoitai_##_andersen_128kb.mp3 where ## is the section number. (e.g. satujajatarinoitai_01_andersen_128kb.mp3)

Upload to the LibriVox Uploader: https://librivox.org/login/uploader

MC to select: Kazbek

[Kazbek]

I'll be glad to set it up for you. We normally recommend that new readers contribute a section or two to collaborative projects before taking on a solo. However, this book is very well suited for a first solo project, so I won't try to dissuade you.

I don't know Finnish, but it looks like the intro and outro need some adjustments to fit our standard format:

1) The first section intro should include the section/tale number right after the title, like you did for the shorter intro. We always include section number in the opening sentence, so that it's possible to find one's place in the book and browse through it without waiting for the end of the disclaimer.
2) Translator's name should be included in the intro of every section, not just the first one.
3) The outro (end of section) should mention section/tale number rather than title.

You can edit this text in your post if you click the pencil icon at the top it.

As soloist, you will also be the BC (book coordinator) for your project, and will be in charge of filling out the Magic Window. Before you can access a Magic Window for the first time, you will need to set up a password for logging into the workflow system, as described here:

How to log in to the workflow system for the first time

Other instructions for managing the Magic Window can be found on this wiki page:

https://wiki.librivox.org/index.php/Soloists:_How_to_update_the_Magic_Window

In a solo project, you don't have to worry about the things that BCs do in group projects for other readers. You just need to do the following:

1) Fill out the Title column, which will be used in the catalog (hit Enter to save).
2) Put file durations (mm:ss) into the Notes column (click Save to save).
3) Copy file URLs from the uploader and paste them into the Listen URL column (hit Enter to save).
4) Update the status to "ready for PL" and "ready for spot PL", as appropriate.

Let me know if you have any questions. I'll leave this thread here on the Launch Pad for a couple of days before moving it to the Going Solo forum, to see if a DPL (Dedicated Proof-listener) volunteers. I look forward to working with you!

Michael

[Kazbek]

Moving the thread to Going Solo to keep the Launchpad tidy.

[Cygnaeus]

Hi Micheal and thank you for the guidance! It is greatly appreciated, especially as this is my first recording.

I have edited the disclaimers and I hope they are alright now.

All the best,
Tuomas

[Kazbek]

Hi Tuomas,

That will work. Have fun!

Michael

[Kitty]

Hello Tuomas

Although I don't speak Finnish (started learning it, but stopped after a few lessons), I can volunteer to DPL this. Will listen to the first section now. If I can follow along with the text I think I can do an adequate job of comparing and finding errors.

Sonia

[Kitty]

ok, I had a listen to it all and I even know the story in English and German. It's a classic. Your reading pace is good, I was able to follow along with the text and from what I gather you are nearly word perfect. Very well done.

Now I found a few differences from the text, but I think most of it is optional. But since I don't know Finnish, I prefer to err on the side of caution and ask you first a few things. Is the placement of the words optional in a sentence ? A few of the differences were due to inversion of words. A few times you left out "ja", which I figure means "and" and is probably optional to leave out, so I didn't mention this each time.

Here is my list, you can look through it and tell me what needs correcting and what is optional because it doesn't change the meaning of the author.

After your instructions I will probably have less PL notes in the next story.

> at 0:44: "Maantiellä hän äkkiä tapasi" – you say "tapasi äkkiä"

> at 5:03: "Olipa siinä rahaa!" – you say "siinäpa oli rahaa"

> at 5:12: "lakin ja saappaat hän mätti niin täyteen" – you omitted "ja"

> at 8:49: "kokoiset ja jonka hän oli nähnyt puun sisässä" – it seems to me there are a few words missing but it was a bit too fast for me to follow

> at 9:47: "ettei sitä prinsessaa nyt saa nähdä" – you say "saa nyt"

> at 9:56: "kun hänen alituisesti täytyy istua suuressa kuparilinnassa kaikkien niiden tornien takana" – you inserted "sina" between istua and suuressa

> at 10:26: "Prinsessa istui nukkuen koiran selässä" – you invert nukkuen and istui

> at 11:33: "ja läksi kotiin nukkumaan" – you invert nukkumaan and kotiin

> at 12:44: Sitten puhkasi hän pussiin pienen läven – as first word I don't hear "sitten", but rather something like kot...

> at 13:09: pitkin tietä linnasta – you insert "kuniga" between tietä and linnasta

> at the end: you have 6 seconds of silence, we only need a standard of 5

Careful with the volume, with 91 dB you are near the upper limit and you risk clipping if you go too loud, which might corrupt the audio sound. Don't go any louder

Great start ! Looking forward to the rest.

Oh and if ever you want to participate with a short story or poem in our multilingual collection, we would be thrilled

Sonia

[Cygnaeus]

Hello Sonia,

thank you very much. It is great to have you as a DPL, this being my first recordin and all. You are clearly highly talented linguistically, since you were able follow and pick up several differences between the text and the recording in a relatively unknown language. Kudos!

In general, the order of words in Finnish is quite flexible. Different ordering might sometimes stress different aspect of a sentance or they can also just make the sentence hard to follow even if it is not technically wrong. This goes very much in to the details, but just in case you are interested: usually the earlier the word appears in a sentance, the more focus it gets. I'd say most inversion of words in reading are probably harmless, but especially if you hear me also stumbling with words close to these bits, it could be a sign that I lost my train of thought for a second there. So, it is really up to you how you want to do this, but I won't mind getting a lot of comment, if you feel like it (on the contrary).

My replies to error observations:
> at 0:44: This inversion should be fine
> at 5:03: Luckily this doesn't really change the meaning, but if the sentance had been more crucial it could have. 'pa' ending places a stong stress to a word. Here the difference is something like "Isn't this here a lot of money?" and "Well, here we have a lot of money".
"Olipa siinä rahaa!" – you say "siinäpa oli rahaa"
> at 5:12: You are correct, 'ja' means and. Omitting it is a clear error, but in this case it kind of works, so I am inclined to keep it as it is,
> at 8:49: You are correct, I used a bit different words here. " olivat kahvikupin kokoiset"(were the size for coffee mugs) became "olivat kuin kahvikupit" (were like coffee mugs), but the meaning stays clear fortunately.
> at 9:47: nyt (now) is used as stressing word here. The original stresses more the it is not allowed to see the princess, and my mistaken version that it is not allowed to see the princess. Meaning remains the same.
> at 9:56: the added word 'siinä' means that, so the new phrase is 'always sit in that big copper castle ...'
> at 10:26: This is a bit strange, but I guess it okey too. The meaning is roughly 'the princess sat sleeping on the dog's back' to 'the princess slept sitting on the dog's back'
> at 11:33: harmless inversion of words.
> at 12:44: true, 'sitten' (=and then) became 'mutta' (but). The meaning stays still the same, luckily.
> at 13:09: inserted word 'kuninkaan' means king's, so just a castle became the king's castle. I guess this is fine, but I'll be more carefull next time.
> at the end: that is true, I'll fix this the next time I am recording.

Again, thank you a lot for doing this and for all your comments and tips. As you mentioned something about participating in a multilingual short story/ poem collection, I would mind at to return the favour, if something suitably simple work would be available in good timeframe.

Tuomas

[Kitty]

hey, thank you for the detailed explanations. I love grammar so this is especially interesting to me. And I like to improve, so I think I will be better prepared for the next section. (be prepared for more linguistic discussions )

You are clearly highly talented linguistically, since you were able follow and pick up several differences between the text and the recording in a relatively unknown language. Kudos!

thank you. I don't know about talented, but languages are a sort of hobby for me and I learnt some basics from many languages already. So I guess I am just finetuned to seeing patterns and comparing with other languages I know already.

In general, the order of words in Finnish is quite flexible. Different ordering might sometimes stress different aspect of a sentance or they can also just make the sentence hard to follow even if it is not technically wrong.

yes that is what I thought, because you have cases/inflections, so these already make clear what kind of word it is. Just like in German or Russian, it's the same, the position is mainly for emphasis. Got it.

if you hear me also stumbling with words close to these bits, it could be a sign that I lost my train of thought for a second there. So, it is really up to you how you want to do this, but I won't mind getting a lot of comment, if you feel like it (on the contrary).

ok if you don't mind, I will note the differences, and you can assess yourself whether it's worth changing.

'pa' ending places a stong stress to a word. Here the difference is something like "Isn't this here a lot of money?" and "Well, here we have a lot of money".

ok got it, interesting. I'll be on the lookout for them

You are correct, 'ja' means and. Omitting it is a clear error

ok I will note them from now on, though often even "and" can be left out (in English at least), and instead it's a sort of listing with comma

> I bought milk and butter = I bought milk, butter.
> I went and looked at him = I went, looked at him.

both would work even though it's not the usual way to say it.

I used a bit different words here. " olivat kahvikupin kokoiset"(were the size for coffee mugs) became "olivat kuin kahvikupit" (were like coffee mugs), but the meaning stays clear fortunately.

ok yes, this is negligible. But we need to take care not to change what the author wrote. At least not constantly. This doesn't mean the occasional inversion can be made, but especially "modern" words inserted for old ones, we should not do. Because we risk reading a newly edited version then and this may be under copyright then

The meaning is roughly 'the princess sat sleeping on the dog's back' to 'the princess slept sitting on the dog's back'

yes indeed, it's the same process

> at the end: that is true, I'll fix this the next time I am recording.

actually, no, if this is the only error you need to fix, I would not insist on it. I only mentioned it as well, because I thought there would be other fixes to do anyway. But for once having 6 seconds instead of 5 is ok, just remember it for your next sections

I'll mark this one PL ok then.

As you mentioned something about participating in a multilingual short story/ poem collection, I would mind at to return the favour, if something suitably simple work would be available in good timeframe.

yes that would be cool, we love to have a good mix of many languages. For the moment we have 8 different languages in the current collection. The thread is here: viewtopic.php?f=60&t=92080.

Of course you need to make sure that your text is public domain. So before you record you could send us the link so we can check. But it's not pressing, you can also concentrate on your solo first. Even if this collection is full, we will automatically start a new one.

I'll be on the lookout for the next story

Sonia

[Cygnaeus]

Hi!
I just finished the second fairytale and it is now ready for PL.

All the best,
Tuomas

[Kitty]

super, another chapter in the box. This time I won't mention as many PL notes, since it was nearly word perfect. Here are only a few which I think this time need correcting:

> at 2:22: "sanoi Iso-Niilo" – you say "Pikku-Niilo"

> at 20:42: repeat, one version can get cut: "ja sitten hän hyökkäsi Pikku-Niilon niskaan"

> from 21:24 to 21:27: between "Ja Iso-Niilo meni kirkkoon." and "Voi nyt kuitenkin!" – the pause feels too long for me, I usually recommend staying well under 2 seconds of silence, usually 1.5 is even enough to make a break

> at 24:31: stumble and repeat: "Siellä oli niin ihmeen herttaista" – you say "sinä" at the beginning

One question concerning pronunciation which puzzled me: the letter 'ä' I most often hear pronounced like a simple 'a', only sometimes it's an 'eh' sound (like the German umlaut 'ä'), and I was wondering whether there is a rule for when to say it how. Does it depend on the adjacent letters or the stress maybe ?

Sonia

[Cygnaeus]

Thanks a lot for the comments. I'll try to get these fixed soon.

One question concerning pronunciation which puzzled me: the letter 'ä' I most often hear pronounced like a simple 'a', only sometimes it's an 'eh' sound (like the German umlaut 'ä'), and I was wondering whether there is a rule for when to say it how. Does it depend on the adjacent letters or the stress maybe ?

This is a good question. In a nutshell, letters A, Ä, and E in finnish are distinct letters and the should be pronounced differently in a consistent way everytime just like they are written. But it might be that there is some level of modulation in practice, especially in spoken language, which I have never noticed, because it comes naturally to me as a native speaker and I don't have to think about it. It would be cool if you can give me some examples where this German Ä happens in the recording.

It is also possible that there are some old fashioned or regional (dialect) words or variations of words in the text, where A, Ä and E have been switched and I missed to catch the original pronunciation. This happens sometimes. For example in western Finland dialects 'älä' (don't as in don't do that) becomes more like 'elä', and in 19th, early 20th century poetry they use the archaic variation 'sa' (pronunced like beginning of salt) of 'sinä' (you) a lot, which is never used anymore but it is also frustatingly close to the modern and very informal variation 'sä' (pronunced like beginning of sad) . So in schools you might get a hard time not saying 'sä' instead of 'sa'.

Tuomas

[Kitty]

It would be cool if you can give me some examples where this German Ä happens in the recording.

well in this short chapter just now, nearly everywhere where there is an 'ä' in the script, I hear you say 'ah', with only a few exceptions. For example: "Eräänä iltana oli hirveä rajuilma" - I clearly hear: "erah-nah" instead of "ereh-neh"

On the other hand, I found one place at least where I hear the German pronunciation of 'ä': "ja rajuilma olivat häntä runnelleet" - I hear "hen-tah", even though both times it's an 'ä' in the script, you pronounce the first like in German, and the final one not

But maybe I am mistaken in thinking that Finnish umlaut 'ä' should be pronounced the same way than German umlaut 'ä' I should not have taken that for granted.

It is also possible that there are some old fashioned or regional (dialect) words or variations of words in the text, where A, Ä and E have been switched and I missed to catch the original pronunciation.

ok that makes sense...I guess as long as the word is understood, for me it's fine. I just ignore the spelling and trust you that you know how to pronounce these words correctly.

Ok the text is on the whole accurate, only mix up with the initial and ending silences:

> in the beginning: 0.5-1 second of silence is enough, you have over 5 ! This is too long for a recording to start. The five second rule is for the end

> at the end: here you need 5 seconds, you only have 2

thanks

Sonia

[Cygnaeus]

Hi Sonia,

as always thank you very much for the comments. Problems with both sections should now be fixed. I was not sure what status I am supposed to give these proof-listened and edited files, so I put 'Ready for PL' just in case.

About the pronunciation of finnish letter Ä, you are actually right that it is different from the german Ä sound now that I started to think about. The finnish ä is quite close (at least to my ear) to the two first sounds in words 'an apple', where as finnish A sounds like the first sound in words like unlikely, until and alumni. I hope this helps.

All the best,
Tuomas

[Cygnaeus]

Hi,

the section number nine is now read for listening. I think that I will read the shorter stories first from now on in order to get some practice before moving on to the longer ones.

Cheers,
Tuomas