[HISTORY - LAWS] Tribal Custom in Anglo-Saxon Law by Frederic Seebohm - jo

[vviera]

No, it seems like you're right on Ecclesiastical Latin. That source says Classical is until 3rd or 4th C., and we're talking ~8th. And it was probably court scribes writing down these laws, but didn't their Latin learning come out of the monasteries? That's ekklēsia by definition! What do you think? I've saved that link you sent.

I found this Wiki about Medieval Latin, a term sometimes used synonymously to Ecclesiastical. It basically boils down to the above.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_Latin

or, here's "A Short History of Latin Pronunciation" -
https://www.memoriapress.com/articles/short-history-latin-pronunciation/

As you said the other day, reading Tribal Customs is basically just an excuse to do a bunch of fun research

Also, I learned yesterday through a book I'm PLing that there is a town named Cumru in Pennsylvania, US, in an area with a bunch of historical Welsh settlers. Lots of other Welsh town names, as well. Who knew?

[jakemalizia]

Apologies Lynnet - I've had to reupload Section 00 because it had the wrong filename; it was missing the _128kb at the end. I'll make sure my subsequent sections are named correctly.

[jakemalizia]

No, it seems like you're right on Ecclesiastical Latin. That source says Classical is until 3rd or 4th C., and we're talking ~8th. And it was probably court scribes writing down these laws, but didn't their Latin learning come out of the monasteries? That's ekklēsia by definition! What do you think? I've saved that link you sent.

I found this Wiki about Medieval Latin, a term sometimes used synonymously to Ecclesiastical. It basically boils down to the above.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_Latin

or, here's "A Short History of Latin Pronunciation" -
https://www.memoriapress.com/articles/short-history-latin-pronunciation/

As you said the other day, reading Tribal Customs is basically just an excuse to do a bunch of fun research

Also, I learned yesterday through a book I'm PLing that there is a town named Cumru in Pennsylvania, US, in an area with a bunch of historical Welsh settlers. Lots of other Welsh town names, as well. Who knew?

Okay, makes sense to me. Let's stick with Ecclesiastical then as it is closer to how the subject matter would have pronounced it.
Ohhh that sounds interesting - who knew the Welsh got around so much there's actually a really interesting place in Patagonia, Argentina where there was a large influx of Welsh-speaking settlers, that now there is a dialect of Welsh called Patagonian Welsh / Cymraeg y Wladfa. I always found it really funny that literally the opposite side of the world there is a small community of people speaking Spanishy Welsh - it's like you and me combined

[czandra]

I just twigged to this project: great to see you two working together, and I like the idea of a duet. Possibilities abound.

Best wishes,
Czandra

[vviera]

Best wishes,
Czandra

Hi Czandra! You know what? JUST LAST NIGHT I was wondering if you were back and active on LV -- I went and stalked you to see what you were doing these days! Whenever it was, a while back you mentioned you were leaving for two weeks, I don't remember how you put it, but I was kind of wondering if everything was ok. Anyway, yep, here we all are!

V

[vviera]

This is the intro format I'm using now that we're into the regular chapters. Please follow suit

Section # of Tribal Custom in Anglo-Saxon Law
This LibriVox recording is in the public domain.
Tribal Custom in Anglo-Saxon Law, by Frederic Seebohm.
Chapter # (Title)
Part # (Title)

[czandra]

Vveira: have fun with this project, guys! Yes, everything is fine. Periodically I get away to internet free zones (they exist), to regain perspective. Another of those is coming in January, for a month this time. Then my new book comes out!

Pluggin' along on LV. How about if you record the one remaining chapter in Women's Wild Oats for us! I don't hardly know what to make of the book - a courageous, probably fairly powerful woman for her time, for better or worse: C. Gascoyne Hartley.

Don't mean to hijack this thread, so am unsubscribing now!

Czandra

[vviera]

Looking through ch. 2, it seems that almost all the foreign words are Welsh. Could you please look at it and see what, if anything, you want me to research for you? I don't think I ever looked for a Welsh pronunciation guide because I figured you guys had it covered.

[jakemalizia]

Looking through ch. 2, it seems that almost all the foreign words are Welsh. Could you please look at it and see what, if anything, you want me to research for you? I don't think I ever looked for a Welsh pronunciation guide because I figured you guys had it covered.

There was a Welsh guide in your first document. But I should be fine with Welsh anyway - I know how to pronounce it pretty well, and I know several people who have Welsh as their first language, so I can get some assistance. I will probably look into differences between modern Welsh and Middle Welsh a bit first, as there may be some divergences. There's also a difference between North and South - I will tend towards north as that is where the density of mother tongue Welsh speakers is higher.

[vviera]

I've got good news and bad news.

Good news - I didn't look back at the MW before I started recording, so I actually did all of Chapter 1 yesterday! I'm glad I didn't know, or I probably would have done only the first section. Instead, I had them both and cut in two to a separate Audacity file.

Bad news - This has caused me to get into a bit of a pickle. I have called the sub-chapters I, II, III etc., "parts." So at the beginning of sec. 1, I say "Chapter I, title, Part I, title." By which I mean, sub-chapter I.

That means, when I get to section 2, I say "Chapter I, title, Part IV, title," which means that the fact that this is MW part 2 of chapter 1 gets lost.

Leave as is? Go through and add "Part I" and "Part II," then change each piece to "subchapter I," "subchapter II," etc.?

Part of me feels like it's a lot to say, "Chapter 1 (title), Part 2, Sub-chapter IV." But I also want it to be clear that this isn't MW part 4, so that the listener is left wondering where MW parts 2 and 3 went.

I hope you can even follow that

Thoughts? I'm continuing to edit meanwhile.

[jakemalizia]

I've got good news and bad news.

Good news - I didn't look back at the MW before I started recording, so I actually did all of Chapter 1 yesterday! I'm glad I didn't know, or I probably would have done only the first section. Instead, I had them both and cut in two to a separate Audacity file.

Bad news - This has caused me to get into a bit of a pickle. I have called the sub-chapters I, II, III etc., "parts." So at the beginning of sec. 1, I say "Chapter I, title, Part I, title." By which I mean, sub-chapter I.

That means, when I get to section 2, I say "Chapter I, title, Part IV, title," which means that the fact that this is MW part 2 of chapter 1 gets lost.

Leave as is? Go through and add "Part I" and "Part II," then change each piece to "subchapter I," "subchapter II," etc.?

Part of me feels like it's a lot to say, "Chapter 1 (title), Part 2, Sub-chapter IV." But I also want it to be clear that this isn't MW part 4, so that the listener is left wondering where MW parts 2 and 3 went.

I hope you can even follow that

Thoughts? I'm continuing to edit meanwhile.

Yeah this is definitely a pickle ... hmmm ...
I agree with you, we want it to be clear but also not too wordy.
Maybe we should prioritise section numbers, so at least the listener hears that at the beginning of each audio file, and can tell exactly if they are in the right order.

so maybe something like "Section 1 - The Currency in Which Wergelds Were Reckoned and Paid ... Part 1 The Connection Between the Wergeld of 100 Head of Cattle and the Mina of the 100 gold staters ... [text] ... Part 2 The Same Equation Repeated (etc.) ... [text] ... Part 3 The Frankish Currency ... [text] End of Section 1"

"Section 2 - The Currency in Which Wergelds Were Reckoned and Paid, continued ... Part 4 The Norman and Anglo-Saxon Currency ... Part 5 ... Part 6 ... End of Section 2, End of chapter [could give chapter name potentially, as well]"

"Section 3 - The Summary of the Cymric Evidence ... Part 1 The Unit of Cymric Tribal Society ... etc etc."

What do you think about this system?

[vviera]

Placeholder for what I'm going to say here but I clicked on "submit" too soon

[vviera]

Yes, "section" at the beginning and end of recording is most important. I was already prioritizing that, because it was/is the first and last thing said. But the title is said twice in an intro, and I was only referring in my message to what comes after the second reading of the title. I think it's fine to have Part 2 in the MW without having to include it in the intro.

Proposing

Section 1
Tribal Custom in Anglo-Saxon Law
LV PD statement
Tribal Custom in Anglo-Saxon Law, by Frederic Seebohm
Chapter I, The Currency in Which the Wergeld was Reckoned and Paid
Part I, Connection Between the Wergeld of the 100 Head of Cattle...
(record, record, record)
...End of Section 1.

Next recording

Section 2
Tribal Custom in Anglo-Saxon Law
LV PD statement
Tribal Custom in Anglo-Saxon Law, by Frederic Seebohm
Chapter I, The Currency in Which the Wergeld was Reckoned and Paid
Part III, The Frankish Currency
(record, record, record)
...End of Section 2

This is exactly what I did, and now that I look at it, I think it's perfectly clear. We just don't include the MW part# in the intro--it's for our reference only. (And this may be what you just said. I've lost track.)

This would make your next one
Section 3
Tribal Custom in Anglo-Saxon Law
LV PD statement
Tribal Custom in Anglo-Saxon Law, by Frederic Seebohm
Chapter II, Summary of the Cymric Evidence
Part I, The Unit of Cymric Society
(record, record, record)
...End of Section 3

OK, go?

[vviera]

OK, section 1 is up.

Note: I read footnotes 2 & 3 together after the relevant paragraph. It seemed to work better that way.

There are a few things in this that I'm not so happy with, but I'm going to let you tell me what I should change. (So much for your piano teacher.) I tend to always think I suck on the slightest error. So don't hesitate to come at me with both barrels

On section 2, I've only done my rough cut (initial pass taking out repeats). I may finish tomorrow, but I'm not sure. Happy Monday!

[jakemalizia]

OK, section 1 is up.

Note: I read footnotes 2 & 3 together after the relevant paragraph. It seemed to work better that way.

There are a few things in this that I'm not so happy with, but I'm going to let you tell me what I should change. (So much for your piano teacher.) I tend to always think I suck on the slightest error. So don't hesitate to come at me with both barrels

On section 2, I've only done my rough cut (initial pass taking out repeats). I may finish tomorrow, but I'm not sure. Happy Monday!

Great! It was so mathematical, but I followed it and you presented it nice and clearly. I won't be coming at you with both barrels... maybe half a barrel? Just a couple of points.

Now these are pretty much optional on your part, because they are all minor issues:

• - at 00:52, the Irish word "cumhal" is pronounced quite differently by natives - have a listen to this: https://forvo.com/search/cumhal/. For reference, have a look here: https://www3.smo.uhi.ac.uk/gaeilge/donncha/focal/features/irishsp.html, where it describes the "mh" consonant in Irish like an English "w" (in its "broad" flavour, as here, before an "a" vowel).
• - at 01:15 - the word is "ratio", I'm not sure if I heard "ray-shun" ? very optional.
• - at 06:22 - the phrase is "at thy table", I heard "at that table", again optional. In that same sentence is the proper noun Demeter - it could be a personal choice / accent thing, so feel free to ignore it, but this American is saying it thus: https://forvo.com/search/Demeter/en/ which is how I say it in my head as well.

Great start to this book. I thought Charlemagne's short-lived innovations were interesting. Probably well-meant, but just ended up confusing everybody