English is over rated

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GettingTooOld
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Post by GettingTooOld »

lightcrystal wrote: November 18th, 2021, 12:13 am Not sure what to think of avoiding languages.
I edit my original message, what I mean, and I guess it's vague ? is that if you go deep end first into learning extra languages you may not keep your morale in order. You might get disappointed because you can't learn to speak Icelandic in two weeks (like one guy claims) so you start off with an easy language first, get the benefits of a second language which will make wanting a third almost inevitable.
lightcrystal wrote: November 18th, 2021, 12:13 am By the way the weirdest experience I had was being taught Mandarin Chinese by a Scotsman with a thick Scottish accent. That got interesting :lol:
The class I was in was told by the teacher "they may say it that way in (native country) but that's not what I'll teach here, no, I won't teach it that way" needless to say that person proved themselves an idiot over and over. Dumped that course, but not the language.

In the end even a Scotsman will give you worthwhile education in Chinese which you can use. It all seems to fall into place and I wouldn't be able to say one part was better quality than another part any more than you can taste each and every ingredient in a cake after you've baked it.

I know what your saying, you learn from grandma and you'll sound like grandma, it's sort-of true, but in a way it doesn't turn out as you would expect it to. I think your brain just deletes the Scottish accent and goes with it.

I would say a Englishman Irishman and Scotsman all walk into a bar and teach you Chinese, you learn the words and grammar and vocab, but not the accent.

Conversely you goto the all native Shenzen born tutors in London and they'll teach you almost the same thing, a little better, and you'll learn words grammar and vocab, but you still won't have an accent.

I would say the only way to get the accent is to live there for some years.

I say we can listen to people halfway through learning our language and we shall remain clueless as to the identity of their teachers.
lightcrystal
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Post by lightcrystal »

I have even by osmosis learnt to read some German [sort of]. As a chess player I have used enough German books and German chess computers that I can make a fair go at reading chess magazines in German. That brings me to a weird experience.

As a chess historian de facto I get into a lot of discussions about chess history. Once I was at a chess club and I got into a chat with someone about 1930's chess players, namely lesser known ones. I mentioned Dawid Przepiórka. Then he puts a suitcase onto the table, opens it and takes out a chess book. He opens the book. It had a red cover and is all in German. It was full of chess problem studies. I knew immediately what I was looking at; it was signed by "The Minister for Chess". Yeah. That 1930's regime. The historian part of me was fascinated; the human part of me was disgusted.

You can develop domain centred language knowledge; I don't think that I would understand much if the book in German had been about boats or bandicoots.

By the way it was mandatory in the 1960's in Britain to do a unit on Scientific German in a science degree. I have the German English dictionary for this on my bookshelf. I had a family member who got a BSc in the 60's from the University of Sheffield.
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GettingTooOld
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Post by GettingTooOld »

Yep. Osmosis is quite right. Music especially. you end up adding words with no cost at all.
mightyfelix
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Post by mightyfelix »

GettingTooOld wrote: November 18th, 2021, 1:24 am I would say a Englishman Irishman and Scotsman all walk into a bar and teach you Chinese...
Sounds like my kind of bar! :lol:
Bookworm360
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Post by Bookworm360 »

One of the biggest improvements to English would be more specification for the word “love”. My love of family and my love for fluffy blankets are two wholly different things, just to state one example. :D
2 Timothy 1:7. Look it up.
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lightcrystal
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Post by lightcrystal »

Bookworm360 wrote: November 21st, 2021, 12:44 pm One of the biggest improvements to English would be more specification for the word “love”. My love of family and my love for fluffy blankets are two wholly different things, just to state one example. :D
An interesting point. It's religious writers who have ran with that and created different categories for love in English! But to do so they use Biblical Greek! No wonder pop songs have had to resort to groovy kinds of love.

Greek agapē : divine love
Eros : erotic love
philia: brotherly love.

I am sure that the Greeks had a word for fluffy blankets love somewhere. :lol:
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GettingTooOld
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Post by GettingTooOld »

Enough of an artist or wordsmith and the bounds disappear. Then is added to the vernacular their new discoveries of mimsy borogroves, slithy toves, wabe and such.
Bookworm360
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Post by Bookworm360 »

lightcrystal wrote: November 21st, 2021, 2:56 pm
Bookworm360 wrote: November 21st, 2021, 12:44 pm One of the biggest improvements to English would be more specification for the word “love”. My love of family and my love for fluffy blankets are two wholly different things, just to state one example. :D
An interesting point. It's religious writers who have ran with that and created different categories for love in English! But to do so they use Biblical Greek! No wonder pop songs have had to resort to groovy kinds of love.

Greek agapē : divine love
Eros : erotic love
philia: brotherly love.

I am sure that the Greeks had a word for fluffy blankets love somewhere. :lol:
:lol: True!
(Side note: the Ancient Greek language is wonderful, isn’t it?)
2 Timothy 1:7. Look it up.
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lightcrystal
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Post by lightcrystal »

Bookworm360 wrote: December 16th, 2021, 12:29 pm
lightcrystal wrote: November 21st, 2021, 2:56 pm
Bookworm360 wrote: November 21st, 2021, 12:44 pm One of the biggest improvements to English would be more specification for the word “love”. My love of family and my love for fluffy blankets are two wholly different things, just to state one example. :D
An interesting point. It's religious writers who have ran with that and created different categories for love in English! But to do so they use Biblical Greek! No wonder pop songs have had to resort to groovy kinds of love.

Greek agapē : divine love
Eros : erotic love
philia: brotherly love.

I am sure that the Greeks had a word for fluffy blankets love somewhere. :lol:
:lol: True!
(Side note: the Ancient Greek language is wonderful, isn’t it?)
It is! I have James Strong's NIV exhaustive concordance on my shelf. It would have a lot of Ancient Greek/Biblical Greek.
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EllaTandilyan
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Post by EllaTandilyan »

I am bilingual, and I totally agree with lightcrystal. Being bilingual helps me express my feelings better.
Ella
lightcrystal
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Post by lightcrystal »

EllaTandilyan wrote: December 19th, 2021, 12:08 pm I am bilingual, and I totally agree with lightcrystal. Being bilingual helps me express my feelings better.
Which languages, if you care to divulge?
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maxgal
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Post by maxgal »

KevinS wrote: November 17th, 2021, 9:45 am

I've heard people refer to an as-yet-unborn child as 'it.' (I find that kind of weird.)

I've heard & read "it" re. a young child many times. Makes sense to me!
Louise
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EllaTandilyan
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Post by EllaTandilyan »

[quote=lightcrystal post_id=1984721 time=1639960381 user_id=132746]
[quote=EllaTandilyan post_id=1984599 time=1639940925 user_id=130722]
I am bilingual, and I totally agree with lightcrystal. Being bilingual helps me express my feelings better.
[/quote]

Which languages, if you care to divulge?
[/quote]

Armenian.
Ella
ChrisGreaves
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Post by ChrisGreaves »

Bookworm360 wrote: November 21st, 2021, 12:44 pm One of the biggest improvements to English would be more specification for the word “love”. My love of family and my love for fluffy blankets are two wholly different things, just to state one example. :D
Hello Bookworm360 !
I think that we already have this distinction.
To love some one or some thing is to want to be (and so to be able to be) of service to that person or thing.
To like some one or some thing is to enjoy that person or thing's presence.

I love Bonavista; how can I be of service to this town?
I love my neighbour David; how can I help him?
I like Chapman's Butterscotch Ripple ice-cream; can't get enough of it, but can't do anything for it. That is Chapman's responsibility and business.
I like the songs recorded by the Everly brothers; nothing I can do for them now!

Might I suggest that you LIKE fluffy blankets; they do good things to you (keep you warm), but there is not much that you can do for them, apart from washing them only in cold water.
I am happy that you Love your family, and I will bet that you are forever finding ways to show that love by your daily actions.
Cheers
Chris
Last edited by ChrisGreaves on January 1st, 2022, 9:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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ChrisGreaves
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Post by ChrisGreaves »

lightcrystal wrote: November 17th, 2021, 2:44 am...I don't think that English has become one of the dominant languages [not most dominant, last time I looked more people speak Hindi and maybe Mandarin Chinese] because English is "better" than other languages.
Hi LightCrystal.

The most common comment I hear is that "English is difficult to learn", followed by a litany of spelling abnormalities, but the blame for these abnormalities can all be laid at the feet of the rapacious mercenary Caxton who, in the second half of the fifteenth century, was casting about for the most rewarding market (doh: London!) and carved the phonetic spelling of that city in stone.
We humans change the language by speech (I worry about what today's teenagers make of a novel that reads "We went to Grandma's for Christmas and had a gay old time") but the read/written form is fixed for all time. As our speech form changed, our written form has not.

I counter this comment with verbs. Walk into any bookshop and take a look at "501 verbs in Spanish" or "501 French verbs". There you have a 700-page book with conjugations for verbs on each page: the Present Indicative, the Past, the Future, the subjunctive, the pluperfect and for all I know the past pluperfect subjunctive(grin). You will never find a book "501 verbs in English". Why?

For one thing, English has no future tense for verbs! "Yesterday I sat; Today I sit; Tomorrow I ???". "Yesterday I ate; Today I eat; Tomorrow I ???".
Once we have mastered the past and present tense of an English verb, that's it!
You can use a modifier such as will/would, can/could, shall/should and of course the auxiliary verbs have/had etc. and at that you are pretty well done!
With "sit" and "sits" you have it all.
With "eat" and "eats" you have it all.
There is no need for "501 verbs in English".

I agree that the UK/USA dominance is a large influencer, but consider how many European firms (the Dutch firm Phillips was one) choose English as their business language rather than, say, Dutch or French.

Cheers
Chris
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