On a slightly different topic, I was browsing the rest of the texts on the USyd Library website and came across this book of poems by Lesbia Harford, who was an interesting character aside from her poems. I know you are interested in 'lost' female poets, Erin, so I thought it may be of interest, although the book was published in 1941.
https://digital.library.sydney.edu.au/nodes/view/12214?type=all&lsk=c8afe74898ec7f7e072b4e8ac27e5404#idx358088
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lesbia_Harford
We do have one poem by her on LV, but I think it is fair to say that she is pretty much forgotten! I have never seen anything else by her either online or in print.
[COMPLETE] Mr. Moffatt by Chester Cobb-ans
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Newgatenovelist
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14 and 18 are PL OK.
You have prompted me to have another look at a forgotten female Australian poet I've sort of circled on and off for a short while. I've found one copy of her (PD) poetry collection on Abe, but while it's not the priciest listing I've ever seen I'm not sure I'm going to spend that much money on something that I can't at least pre-read to see if I'd like to record it. If Trove is an acceptable source, though, I might have to have another crack at finding some of her verses...
O nooooooooo you are tempting me! I was going to try to argue, though feebly, and say I've recorded some male forgotten poets this year for the monthly poetry collections but yes, most of my solos have been of women. It might work on Legamus, if Viktor wd accept the source. Maybe. Mmmmmm.eggs4ears wrote: ↑December 6th, 2023, 3:48 am On a slightly different topic, I was browsing the rest of the texts on the USyd Library website and came across this book of poems by Lesbia Harford, who was an interesting character aside from her poems. I know you are interested in 'lost' female poets, Erin, so I thought it may be of interest, although the book was published in 1941.
https://digital.library.sydney.edu.au/nodes/view/12214?type=all&lsk=c8afe74898ec7f7e072b4e8ac27e5404#idx358088
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lesbia_Harford
We do have one poem by her on LV, but I think it is fair to say that she is pretty much forgotten! I have never seen anything else by her either online or in print.
You have prompted me to have another look at a forgotten female Australian poet I've sort of circled on and off for a short while. I've found one copy of her (PD) poetry collection on Abe, but while it's not the priciest listing I've ever seen I'm not sure I'm going to spend that much money on something that I can't at least pre-read to see if I'd like to record it. If Trove is an acceptable source, though, I might have to have another crack at finding some of her verses...
Sections 19 and 20 ready for PL. Have your hankie ready!
https://librivox.org/uploads/annise/moffatt_19_cobb_128kb.mp3 - 09:46
https://librivox.org/uploads/annise/moffatt_20_cobb_128kb.mp3 - 11:01
https://librivox.org/uploads/annise/moffatt_19_cobb_128kb.mp3 - 09:46
https://librivox.org/uploads/annise/moffatt_20_cobb_128kb.mp3 - 11:01
I'm intrigued to know who it is! As well as Trove, if they have full text, I think that the old Adelaide University collection may still be available through Wayback Machine. I'm also downloading anything of interest from the SETIS site while it is still there.Newgatenovelist wrote: ↑December 6th, 2023, 10:14 am You have prompted me to have another look at a forgotten female Australian poet I've sort of circled on and off for a short while. I've found one copy of her (PD) poetry collection on Abe, but while it's not the priciest listing I've ever seen I'm not sure I'm going to spend that much money on something that I can't at least pre-read to see if I'd like to record it. If Trove is an acceptable source, though, I might have to have another crack at finding some of her verses...
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Newgatenovelist
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19 is PL OK. One possible note for 20:
1.51, top third p 115
There's nobody to take that from you. Beautiful air, sweet, clean [heard calm]. . . .
Probably wouldn’t have noticed if I’d been PLing while doing the washing up, but looking at the text ‘calm’ seems slightly out of place given Mr. Moffat’s mental processes.
I wanted to say thank you for the Lesbia Harford link. I was about to say that I read that poetry collection when I should have been doing something worthwhile, but reading poetry is ALWAYS worthwhile. In this case, it was doubly so. Have you had a chance to read it yet? It was pretty consistently good. I don't know how much she must have jettisoned to get a volume that maintained that standard that one does, but I thoroughly enjoyed it and have been trying to figure out how to smuggle it on to some website, somewhere, in audio form.
ANNE, if you're not sick of my questions, could I use newspapers on Trove (pre-1928) as a source to record for LV? No plans to get to anything until 2024, but would that be feasible?
1.51, top third p 115
There's nobody to take that from you. Beautiful air, sweet, clean [heard calm]. . . .
Probably wouldn’t have noticed if I’d been PLing while doing the washing up, but looking at the text ‘calm’ seems slightly out of place given Mr. Moffat’s mental processes.
I wanted to say thank you for the Lesbia Harford link. I was about to say that I read that poetry collection when I should have been doing something worthwhile, but reading poetry is ALWAYS worthwhile. In this case, it was doubly so. Have you had a chance to read it yet? It was pretty consistently good. I don't know how much she must have jettisoned to get a volume that maintained that standard that one does, but I thoroughly enjoyed it and have been trying to figure out how to smuggle it on to some website, somewhere, in audio form.
I'm reluctant to talk about something a few projects off yet, but I had a hasty look before Trove closed for the weekend for maintenance and at least in the first round of scouting I didn't hit a brick wall. Thanks for the prompt to look beyond my usual IA crawl. Now comes the question:eggs4ears wrote: ↑December 10th, 2023, 4:25 am I'm intrigued to know who it is! As well as Trove, if they have full text, I think that the old Adelaide University collection may still be available through Wayback Machine. I'm also downloading anything of interest from the SETIS site while it is still there.
ANNE, if you're not sick of my questions, could I use newspapers on Trove (pre-1928) as a source to record for LV? No plans to get to anything until 2024, but would that be feasible?
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Newgatenovelist
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I forgot to say - I don't want to sound condescending, so if you've read Martin Chuzzlewit please ignore the following. But out of Dickens's novels, I think that one isn't read as much as once it was, and Mr. Moffat's reference to a character from that novel might have slipped under the radar. In chapter 20, he mentions Pecksniff, who initially presents himself as an upright, virtuous figure but who is revealed as a hypocrite. I don't know enough about Chester Cobb's writing to know if this is simply a throwaway line or if it's meant as a reflection on Mr. Moffat's own forms of self-deception and attitude to spending money on himself versus his wife. Anyway, I thought I'd throw it out there for us both to ponder as the narrative progresses.
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annise
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never sick of questions - should be OK if they are. I looked up our catalogue and we have 1 poem but the text link is dead, as are most of the Wiki links.
Which makes me feel they are probably available on another Australian site. She seems an interesting person and she is buried in the cemetery about 200 metres from here.
Anne
Which makes me feel they are probably available on another Australian site. She seems an interesting person and she is buried in the cemetery about 200 metres from here.
Anne
Thanks for the PL note on 20, I'll have to re-record that. I wondered who Mr. Pecksniff was, now I know! Nothing to upload at the moment - I am going away at the weekend and concentrating on recording so I can have something to take away and edit. Just a comment on the book so far.
I don't see Mr. Moffatt as a hypocrite, more as someone who doesn't want to face up to reality and just wants to be left alone. But I understand that the character is very much based on the author's father, who owned a pharmacy business at exactly the spot described in the book (Charing Cross in Waverley, rather than Six Ways Cross in Claverley). He also had a picture that he took to England because he thought it might be an old master! How much of the rest of the story reflects his life and character, I don't know. In fact, now that we know that what was going to happen has happened, I am not sure what lies ahead. I feel like things will get worse for Mr. M before they get better!
I don't see Mr. Moffatt as a hypocrite, more as someone who doesn't want to face up to reality and just wants to be left alone. But I understand that the character is very much based on the author's father, who owned a pharmacy business at exactly the spot described in the book (Charing Cross in Waverley, rather than Six Ways Cross in Claverley). He also had a picture that he took to England because he thought it might be an old master! How much of the rest of the story reflects his life and character, I don't know. In fact, now that we know that what was going to happen has happened, I am not sure what lies ahead. I feel like things will get worse for Mr. M before they get better!
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Newgatenovelist
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Section 20 is spot PL OK.
I didn't mean to imply that Mr. Moffat is being equated with Pecksniff. I don't think he is. It just struck me as an odd (to me) choice, given how many characters Dickens created. Perhaps there was an image circulating at or just before the time that that chapter was being written, and it found its way in. But as far as memorable illustrations of Dickens's novels go, Pecksniff isn't the first one to leap to mind. I don't think, either, that Mr. Moffat is being depicted in the same vein as any of some of Dickens's more colourful but less sympathetic characters. Since we're running on a Victorian line, the author I keep coming back to is George Eliot. The style of writing seems quite in keeping with Modernist tendencies, as is the way time expands and compresses certain passages of Mr. Moffat's life. Underneath that, however, it seems to be travelling in the same direction as so many of the characters in Middlemarch (or others, take your pick!) who do things that harm themselves and those around them, or act out of naked self-interest, but whose thought processes and careful self-justification show how they have come to explain to themselves why they have done what they've done. It's a sympathetic approach, not a presentation of 'here's a villain doing evil things'. Cobb seems to be taking that and running with it. We see Mr. Moffat rationalising why spending hundreds of pounds on an international voyage and hotel dinners for himself is justified but fretting about his wife's medical bills, even though she delayed seeking treatment (in some of his trajectories regarding expenditure he really reminds me of a couple of Jane Austen characters who also do all sorts of mental gymnastics to arrive at their desired conclusion!). Or how, when his wife mentions something he had previously thought he dismisses it and convinces himself that she doesn't know him at all, not acknowledging or even realising the truth of what she said. He doesn't do anything to be deliberately cruel, it's just that sometimes his self-deception has devasting consequences (the mountains of debt, not seeing his wife). However, we see that that's how he's living his life and that he genuinely believes what he's thinking or saying at the time and it's all done because he's not terribly self aware. Although as you say, that's up until this point in the book. We'll see what's coming and if there are any further revelations!
Not that your CV needs it, but I do feel like you could add a line about running a very small book club for a few years now...
I didn't mean to imply that Mr. Moffat is being equated with Pecksniff. I don't think he is. It just struck me as an odd (to me) choice, given how many characters Dickens created. Perhaps there was an image circulating at or just before the time that that chapter was being written, and it found its way in. But as far as memorable illustrations of Dickens's novels go, Pecksniff isn't the first one to leap to mind. I don't think, either, that Mr. Moffat is being depicted in the same vein as any of some of Dickens's more colourful but less sympathetic characters. Since we're running on a Victorian line, the author I keep coming back to is George Eliot. The style of writing seems quite in keeping with Modernist tendencies, as is the way time expands and compresses certain passages of Mr. Moffat's life. Underneath that, however, it seems to be travelling in the same direction as so many of the characters in Middlemarch (or others, take your pick!) who do things that harm themselves and those around them, or act out of naked self-interest, but whose thought processes and careful self-justification show how they have come to explain to themselves why they have done what they've done. It's a sympathetic approach, not a presentation of 'here's a villain doing evil things'. Cobb seems to be taking that and running with it. We see Mr. Moffat rationalising why spending hundreds of pounds on an international voyage and hotel dinners for himself is justified but fretting about his wife's medical bills, even though she delayed seeking treatment (in some of his trajectories regarding expenditure he really reminds me of a couple of Jane Austen characters who also do all sorts of mental gymnastics to arrive at their desired conclusion!). Or how, when his wife mentions something he had previously thought he dismisses it and convinces himself that she doesn't know him at all, not acknowledging or even realising the truth of what she said. He doesn't do anything to be deliberately cruel, it's just that sometimes his self-deception has devasting consequences (the mountains of debt, not seeing his wife). However, we see that that's how he's living his life and that he genuinely believes what he's thinking or saying at the time and it's all done because he's not terribly self aware. Although as you say, that's up until this point in the book. We'll see what's coming and if there are any further revelations!
Not that your CV needs it, but I do feel like you could add a line about running a very small book club for a few years now...
Section 21, ready for PL!
https://librivox.org/uploads/annise/moffatt_21_cobb_128kb.mp3 - 13:32
Yes, I wrong to imply you were implying he is a hypocrite
and self-deception is really what we are talking about. I don't really know George Eliot, but wouldn't the way of showing thought process be a bit different? Wouldn't a Victorian writer explain what the character was thinking, rather than show it directly? I mean that Mr Moffatt sometimes thinks one thing, thinks the opposite, then thinks the first thing again and finally ends up deciding something quite different. And there is also the way that his thoughts seem to bubble up sometimes without him really being aware of them. I suppose what I am saying is that I am not sure if the author wants us to be critical of Mr. Moffatt (well, he probably does), or whether he is saying that this is just how everyone thinks and acts?
https://librivox.org/uploads/annise/moffatt_21_cobb_128kb.mp3 - 13:32
Ha ha! Maybe a 'lost book club'!Newgatenovelist wrote: ↑December 14th, 2023, 2:02 pm Section 20 is spot PL OK.
Not that your CV needs it, but I do feel like you could add a line about running a very small book club for a few years now...
Yes, I wrong to imply you were implying he is a hypocrite
and self-deception is really what we are talking about. I don't really know George Eliot, but wouldn't the way of showing thought process be a bit different? Wouldn't a Victorian writer explain what the character was thinking, rather than show it directly? I mean that Mr Moffatt sometimes thinks one thing, thinks the opposite, then thinks the first thing again and finally ends up deciding something quite different. And there is also the way that his thoughts seem to bubble up sometimes without him really being aware of them. I suppose what I am saying is that I am not sure if the author wants us to be critical of Mr. Moffatt (well, he probably does), or whether he is saying that this is just how everyone thinks and acts?And a short one to finish off Chapter 5. Section 22 ready for PL!
https://librivox.org/uploads/annise/moffatt_22_cobb_128kb.mp3 - 07:18
https://librivox.org/uploads/annise/moffatt_22_cobb_128kb.mp3 - 07:18
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Newgatenovelist
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One note per section:
Section 21
8.50-8.55, bottom third p 120
When he had kissed her, her [heard his] hands were raised against his chest, as if to push him away.
Section 22
3.37-3.39, top half p 124
We [heard You] got on so well together. We were such friends.
You're right, George Eliot does show thought processes quite differently and I wasn't very clear about that. Stylistically I think Cobb is very clearly in the Modernist camp, and in that sense he doesn't seem like Eliot at all. I meant more that in some ways he seems to be her descendant in terms of taking his readers inside the head of his characters, letting you see *why* they're doing the things they do, even if he employs a very different method to Eliot. That's especially clear in cases where you can follow a character's thoughts step by step until they arrive at a conclusion that benefits themselves. Eliot and Cobb's characters are doing it maliciously or wouldn't necessarily see themselves as acting out of self-interest, and letting readers inside their thoughts allows readers to see and understand why these characters are complex, messy people and not just jerks looking out for number one. I think that kind of sympathy for flawed characters might appear in both Eliot and Cobb (or at least this novel), but yeah, the actual writing is nothing like!
Section 21
8.50-8.55, bottom third p 120
When he had kissed her, her [heard his] hands were raised against his chest, as if to push him away.
Section 22
3.37-3.39, top half p 124
We [heard You] got on so well together. We were such friends.
You're right, George Eliot does show thought processes quite differently and I wasn't very clear about that. Stylistically I think Cobb is very clearly in the Modernist camp, and in that sense he doesn't seem like Eliot at all. I meant more that in some ways he seems to be her descendant in terms of taking his readers inside the head of his characters, letting you see *why* they're doing the things they do, even if he employs a very different method to Eliot. That's especially clear in cases where you can follow a character's thoughts step by step until they arrive at a conclusion that benefits themselves. Eliot and Cobb's characters are doing it maliciously or wouldn't necessarily see themselves as acting out of self-interest, and letting readers inside their thoughts allows readers to see and understand why these characters are complex, messy people and not just jerks looking out for number one. I think that kind of sympathy for flawed characters might appear in both Eliot and Cobb (or at least this novel), but yeah, the actual writing is nothing like!
Thanks for the PL notes! I'll look after them later in the week as I don't have the audacity file for 21 on this computer.
Section 23 ready for PL - a longish one!
https://librivox.org/uploads/annise/moffatt_23_cobb_128kb.mp3 - 27:33
As I looked it up, here's an explanatory note for the rather puzzling conversation at the end of this section. Cremation was made legal in NSW in 1925, but it had been made legal in Victoria around twenty years earlier - which meant you'd need to take a round trip of around 2,000 km if you were progressive and insisted on cremation.
Section 23 ready for PL - a longish one!
https://librivox.org/uploads/annise/moffatt_23_cobb_128kb.mp3 - 27:33
As I looked it up, here's an explanatory note for the rather puzzling conversation at the end of this section. Cremation was made legal in NSW in 1925, but it had been made legal in Victoria around twenty years earlier - which meant you'd need to take a round trip of around 2,000 km if you were progressive and insisted on cremation.
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Newgatenovelist
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Section 23 is PL OK.
Thank you for the info about cremation across different states. Naomi's revulsion at burial did set me idly wondering if Australia, like parts of the UK, had problems with overcrowded and unsanitary graveyards or otherwise had to learn to deal differently with death as the population grew. Also, I can't remember if the subject or subjects Naomi teaches have been mentioned, but it raised questions about what education she'd had, how the education in Sydney was handled in the 20s and how she got her position. Mostly that's all making me realise just how much I don't know!
Thank you for the info about cremation across different states. Naomi's revulsion at burial did set me idly wondering if Australia, like parts of the UK, had problems with overcrowded and unsanitary graveyards or otherwise had to learn to deal differently with death as the population grew. Also, I can't remember if the subject or subjects Naomi teaches have been mentioned, but it raised questions about what education she'd had, how the education in Sydney was handled in the 20s and how she got her position. Mostly that's all making me realise just how much I don't know!
Sections 21 and 22 ready for spot PL!
Sydney definitely had problems with graveyards. The first one is now the site of Sydney Town Hall, and the second on the site of Central Station. Both were closed mainly because the bodies were starting to reappear out of the ground. They were replaced by a vast cemetery at Rookwood which is still there and a little bit of a tourist attraction. Mrs. Moffatt is about to be put to rest in Claverley (Waverley) Cemetery:
"Dramatically located on top of the cliffs above the Pacific Ocean at Bronte in the eastern suburbs of Sydney, the Waverley Cemetery is noted for its largely intact Victorian and Edwardian monuments. Australia's most well known cemetery, it was opened in 1877 on the site of an old horse tram terminus. Waverley Cemetery was used during the filming of the 1979 Mel Gibson film Tim. The Cemetery was designed to function along similar lines to Pere Lachaise in Paris and General Cemetery Company's Kensal Green Cemetery in London. Since it opening, there have been over 86,000 interments including burial cremation, memorials and Mausolea." https://www.visitsydneyaustralia.com.au/cemeteries.html
Sydney definitely had problems with graveyards. The first one is now the site of Sydney Town Hall, and the second on the site of Central Station. Both were closed mainly because the bodies were starting to reappear out of the ground. They were replaced by a vast cemetery at Rookwood which is still there and a little bit of a tourist attraction. Mrs. Moffatt is about to be put to rest in Claverley (Waverley) Cemetery:
"Dramatically located on top of the cliffs above the Pacific Ocean at Bronte in the eastern suburbs of Sydney, the Waverley Cemetery is noted for its largely intact Victorian and Edwardian monuments. Australia's most well known cemetery, it was opened in 1877 on the site of an old horse tram terminus. Waverley Cemetery was used during the filming of the 1979 Mel Gibson film Tim. The Cemetery was designed to function along similar lines to Pere Lachaise in Paris and General Cemetery Company's Kensal Green Cemetery in London. Since it opening, there have been over 86,000 interments including burial cremation, memorials and Mausolea." https://www.visitsydneyaustralia.com.au/cemeteries.html