[WESTERN ADVENTURE] With Carson and Fremont, by Edwin L. Sabin -brrot

[silverquill]

Hello,

Here is Chapter 2, ready for review!

Length: 22m 37s

URL: https://librivox.org/uploads/brownrottger/carsonandfremont_02_sabin_128kb.mp3

Thank you!
Both are in the MW Ready for PL

[BetsyWalker]

Hello!
Here is Chapter 1 for review!
Length: 22m 8s
URL: https://librivox.org/uploads/brownrottger/carsonandfremont_01_sabin_128kb.mp3

This is mostly a really good reading. I thoroughly enjoy the voices! I do have one concern, though, that shows up at a number of times.

Times: 4:27—4:34—4:50—5:15—6:41—9:51—9:56—18:18—21:40--
Mispronounce “Kiowa”. Should not be “ki” like the word “key”, but a long “i” like in “kite”

These are 9 of the 25 times the name Kiowa appears in this text. I have not listened to the next chapter yet, but I am guessing it appears there, too. I am going to ask the project admin to advise here. It might be best to get this on track before more chapters are recorded...

Betsy

[brownrottger]

Hello!
Here is Chapter 1 for review!
Length: 22m 8s
URL: https://librivox.org/uploads/brownrottger/carsonandfremont_01_sabin_128kb.mp3

This is mostly a really good reading. I thoroughly enjoy the voices! I do have one concern, though, that shows up at a number of times.

Times: 4:27—4:34—4:50—5:15—6:41—9:51—9:56—18:18—21:40--
Mispronounce “Kiowa”. Should not be “ki” like the word “key”, but a long “i” like in “kite”

These are 9 of the 25 times the name Kiowa appears in this text. I have not listened to the next chapter yet, but I am guessing it appears there, too. I am going to ask the project admin to advise here. It might be best to get this on track before more chapters are recorded...

Betsy

Pronunciations of names are at the reader's discretion. The goal, however, is to keep such pronunciation consistent throughout the section. Another exception is when the BC indicates they want a certain pronunciation in the instructions in the first post. There are no such requirements in this project. With regard to Section 1 even though there may be inconsistencies in pronunciation of "Kiowa" the listener will understand that it is the tribe being referred to from context. Therefore, these do not need to be corrected.

[BetsyWalker]

Pronunciations of names are at the reader's discretion. The goal, however, is to keep such pronunciation consistent throughout the section. Another exception is when the BC indicates they want a certain pronunciation in the instructions in the first post. There are no such requirements in this project. With regard to Section 1 even though there may be inconsistencies in pronunciation of "Kiowa" the listener will understand that it is the tribe being referred to from context. Therefore, these do not need to be corrected.

Thanks for this swift feedback! It's all I needed to know. I'll move on to the next chapter - Betsy

[silverquill]

Hello!
Here is Chapter 1 for review!
Length: 22m 8s
URL: https://librivox.org/uploads/brownrottger/carsonandfremont_01_sabin_128kb.mp3

This is mostly a really good reading. I thoroughly enjoy the voices! I do have one concern, though, that shows up at a number of times.

Times: 4:27—4:34—4:50—5:15—6:41—9:51—9:56—18:18—21:40--
Mispronounce “Kiowa”. Should not be “ki” like the word “key”, but a long “i” like in “kite”

These are 9 of the 25 times the name Kiowa appears in this text. I have not listened to the next chapter yet, but I am guessing it appears there, too. I am going to ask the project admin to advise here. It might be best to get this on track before more chapters are recorded...

Betsy

You are quite right. This is such a standard pronunciation, I think it would be confusing and disrespectful for the Kiowa nation to have it mispronounced! Here is a perspective, "

KY-OH-WA

"A lot of people call, or come into town, and call us KEE-OH-WA. We are definitely not KEE-OH-WA. We are Kiowa,"

[BetsyWalker]

You are quite right. This is such a standard pronunciation, I think it would be confusing and disrespectful for the Kiowa nation to have it mispronounced! Here is a perspective, "

KY-OH-WA

"A lot of people call, or come into town, and call us KEE-OH-WA. We are definitely not KEE-OH-WA. We are Kiowa,"

Then - shall I wait before moving on to the next chapter? Or - if helpful, I can PL the next chapter and note any times when it happens again? - Betsy

[silverquill]

Well, let's wait. I may have a conflict here, and the MC can override.

I've had my knuckles rapped a few times over this pronunciation issue.

LV policy under Standard PL criteria does say that we should not comment on pronunciation issues. In general, I see the validity of this policy as there are not only variations in the U.S., but globally there are many different accents and alternate pronunciations. Other times, it is nearly impossible to say what the correct pronunciation is, especially in some of the older texts that we deal with.

My contention is that there are some words and names that are so standardized that they should be read correctly, like the River Thames, or one that I had WRONG for a long time, the English poet, William Cowper (pronounced Cooper). Now if someone pronounces my home state ory-GON, instead of ORY-GUN, I may point it out, but won't insist on a correction. Other times I may suggest a change in pronunciation as an optional suggestion, though I've been told that even mention such things could be considered out of the bounds of Standard PL.

But, I have been asked to correct pronunciations many time in my recordings.

Sometimes a BC may give pronunciation guides or specify how a name should be pronounced, but Kiowa seemed so standard (maybe because I grew up in the western US) that I didn't think it necessary to do so.

Christine brings up the issue of consistency, which is valid, but I would like consistency throughout the book, and not have variations from chapter to chapter.

I suppose in the end, we'll have to let this one pass, or at least leave it up to the reader as an optional correction. Sounds fair enough to me.

[brownrottger]

If it is important to you Larry, you as BC can require it. There just needs to be advance notice in the first post, in my opinion.

[BetsyWalker]

Hello! Here is chapter 8 (17:23). I apologize for my attempt at a western drawl. It appears it's the only way I can channel some of the dialogue

https://librivox.org/uploads/brownrottger/carsonandfremont_08_sabin_128kb.mp3

Well done, Claire! PL Okay - Betsy

[silverquill]

If it is important to you Larry, you as BC can require it. There just needs to be advance notice in the first post, in my opinion.

Agreed that that would be best, but how could I possibly anticipate all possible names that someone might deviate from standard pronunciation?

Can we give it a "PL OK" with optional suggestions?

[brownrottger]

If it is important to you Larry, you as BC can require it. There just needs to be advance notice in the first post, in my opinion.

Agreed that that would be best, but how could I possibly anticipate all possible names that someone might deviate from standard pronunciation?

Can we give it a "PL OK" with optional suggestions?

Yes

[silverquill]

Hello!

Here is Chapter 1 for review!

Length: 22m 8s

URL: https://librivox.org/uploads/brownrottger/carsonandfremont_01_sabin_128kb.mp3

Hi, Gloria!

Well, if you aren't thoroughly confused by our discussion over the pronunciation of "Kiowa" by now, I'd be surprised.

As Book Coordinator, I do apologize for that. But, if you try to follow our discussion, you will see the issues involved within the context of LibriVox proof listening guidelines.

It just never occurred to me that there would be an issue over such a well-known native American tribe, and also place name. So that lack of clarity was my oversight.

Anyway, the upshot is that the change on pronunciation is entirely optional for you!

Personally, I would like to see it corrected, but you are perfectly able to keep it as you've read, and we'll give you the "PL OK," and be grateful for your contribution. Truly. I know it's a big job to go back and make these changes, so don't feel bad if you choose to keep this "as is." Just let us know what you'd like to do.

Again, thank you so much for your valuable contributions.

[BetsyWalker]

So - at this point I'll just move forward, I guess. I'll PL the next chapter later today. - Betsy

[BetsyWalker]

So - at this point I'll just move forward, I guess. I'll PL the next chapter later today. - Betsy

Now I am somewhat confused. It seems someone else went ahead and PLed the next chapter. If you'd like me to stop, perhaps I should not be the DPL any longer? - Betsy

[silverquill]

So - at this point I'll just move forward, I guess. I'll PL the next chapter later today. - Betsy

Now I am somewhat confused. It seems someone else went ahead and PLed the next chapter. If you'd like me to stop, perhaps I should not be the DPL any longer? - Betsy

Not I. And, there are no PL Notes. So, I'm also confused.
Only three people have access to the MW - MC, BC, and DPL.
It could very well be that I toggled the status incorrectly when I put this in the MW. Was it marked Ready for PL previously?
Nonetheless, I'll change the status.

Wow, this is the most confused project I've run for a long, long time.
Let's all take a deep breath and move forward.