~[SOLO/HEBREW] Ra'yonot, by Marcus Aurelius, translated by Armand Kaminka - kaz

[Kazbek]

Hi Guy,

Are you still working on this project?

Michael

[Kazbek]

Soloist was last active 7 months ago. Abandonizing.

[DaniGirl1967]

Hi,
I tried to listen to the chapters that were already recorded but got an error 404 URL not found notice.
Does that mean that it no longer exists?

Daniela

[Kazbek]

Hi,
I tried to listen to the chapters that were already recorded but got an error 404 URL not found notice.
Does that mean that it no longer exists?

Hi Daniela,

The recordings were stashed away for safe keeping. I've moved them back into my folder for you. Let me know if you'd like to take on the project and we can get it relaunched.

Michael

[DaniGirl1967]

Questions:

1. The title states that this work was translated by Armand Kaminka. But all the sources, including the Hebrew spelling of the translator's name and the reader's own pronunciation indicate that the translator is Aharon Kaminka. Can that be changed?
2. The introduction to the book is not included in the chapters - should it be omitted or included? It is quite extensive and is divided into multiple sections.
3. The Hebrew text is interspersed with Greek words written in actual Greek letters that I cannot read. Is there another volunteer who is fluent in Greek who might help me with this? Same with French.
4. Is there a Hebrew language proof listener who can attend to this project? The language is archaic and a fluent and knowledgeable proof listener is a must.

All the Best,
Daniela

[Kazbek]

Questions:

1. The title states that this work was translated by Armand Kaminka. But all the sources, including the Hebrew spelling of the translator's name and the reader's own pronunciation indicate that the translator is Aharon Kaminka. Can that be changed?

Yes.

2. The introduction to the book is not included in the chapters - should it be omitted or included? It is quite extensive and is divided into multiple sections.

Prefaces and introductions are optional and the soloist can decide whether to include them.

3. The Hebrew text is interspersed with Greek words written in actual Greek letters that I cannot read. Is there another volunteer who is fluent in Greek who might help me with this? Same with French.

I'm reasonably comfortable with Greek and French, so I can help with that.

4. Is there a Hebrew language proof listener who can attend to this project? The language is archaic and a fluent and knowledgeable proof listener is a must.

Our PLs are volunteers like the rest of us, and there's no way of knowing when someone will volunteer for a given project. We've had some difficulty finding PLs for Hebrew projects in the past. The more demanding are the requirements, the harder it is to find a volunteer. Here's a summary of PL levels that you can choose from:

https://wiki.librivox.org/index.php/Guide_for_Proof-listeners#Levels_of_Proof-listening

Michael

[DaniGirl1967]

Understood. Potentially, I would like for a higher standard of proof listening and constructive criticism. Like I said, the language is archaic.

The last two questions:
1. The previous soloist had the intro and outro in Hebrew, not English. Is that standard? The only other Hebrew project I've been involved in was as a proof listener and that had the intros in English.
2. Can I record the chapters as they are and then decide if I want to do the lengthy intro? Having read it, I believe that it is valuable - but difficult.

All the Best,
Daniela

[Kazbek]

The last two questions:
1. The previous soloist had the intro and outro in Hebrew, not English. Is that standard? The only other Hebrew project I've been involved in was as a proof listener and that had the intros in English.

Yes, intros and outros are usually in the language of the source.

2. Can I record the chapters as they are and then decide if I want to do the lengthy intro? Having read it, I believe that it is valuable - but difficult.

Yes, in fact it looks like the original soloist was also undecided about including the foreword, since he used the long intro for section 1 and the short intro starting from section 2. Since the sections are numbered starting from 0 and the intros of the book chapters start with "sefer #1, etc", omitting the foreword won't affect the numbering. If you do include it, you would use the long intro and say "mavo" (or whatever the word is) at the start.

Michael

[DaniGirl1967]

OK. I'll do it.
Please note that the name of the author is written and pronounced as Marcus Avrelius Antoninus and the translator is Dr. Aharon Kaminka. This should be fixed.

After the introduction and before the main text there is another title page that reads (I'm translating into English) "Ideas, Marcus Avrelius Antoninus Ceaser, Book-scrolls that he has written for himself" That page is omitted from the existing recording. Should it be there?

Daniela

[Kazbek]

OK. I'll do it.
Please note that the name of the author is written and pronounced as Marcus Avrelius Antoninus and the translator is Dr. Aharon Kaminka. This should be fixed.

My initial answer about changing the name was based on the premise that it's not consistent with the sources. After looking into the premise, I have to revise my answer. First, some background about the handling of author names at LV. The spelling you see in this thread is limited to the forums; it doesn't affect anything in the wider world. The form of the name that will be visible to listeners after the book is finished is the author entry in the LV catalog. Since that entry is associated with all the LV books by the author, we follow some standard practices for choosing the form of the name that appears in it. There's a principal author entry, which uses the form of the name that commonly appears in English-language publications, and alternative entries, which can include the native form of the name (I see that for some Hebrew authors in the past we've put the native form of the name into the main entry alongside the English form, which we could also do for Kaminka). The main entry implicitly follows a policy similar to the one used at the English Wikipedia for naming articles, because we generally "outsource" the research for determining it to Wikipedia editors. If there's no en-wiki article for the author, as is the case for Kaminka, or if the choice doesn't appear to have gotten enough attention on en-wiki to ensure compliance with their policy, we can consult the principal author entry in standard English-language library catalogs. One of them is Hathitrust, which provides the source link used here. Its author entry uses "Armand", as do the catalogs of the US Library of Congress and Worldcat. Likewise, Marcus Aurelius, without Antoninus, is the form found in our reference sources. Aharon Kaminka and Marcus Aurelius Antoninus do seem to be a common alternative forms, so I've added them as alternative entries. Since the forms of these names seem to be a matter of concern for you, please confirm that you would like to proceed.

After the introduction and before the main text there is another title page that reads (I'm translating into English) "Ideas, Marcus Avrelius Antoninus Ceaser, Book-scrolls that he has written for himself" That page is omitted from the existing recording. Should it be there?

We generally don't read content of the title page, but if contains something that could be considered part of the contents of the book, it's optional and you could include it if you like.

Michael

[DaniGirl1967]

Hi,
Sorry to be such a stickler on details. That's what being a lawyer does to a person
FYI, Dr. Kaminka emigrated to Israel during WWII. Many Who did that legally changed their names to their Hebrew names. We tend to honor that choice. But given that this is how the internet knows him I suppose it's ok for consistency.

I'll do it.

Daniela

Btw, re sources: I recently contacted Project Ben-Yehuda, which is an Israeli version of the Guttenberg Project. They were very enthusiastic about allowing me to record the open source material they have for Librivox. Is that allowed?

[annise]

We have to abide by USA laws as that is where the files are stored so I can't give a blanket answer, they would need to know the USA copyright status of the texts as well as the Israeli one .

Anne

[Kazbek]

I'll do it.

Great! I've moved the thread onto the launchpad and set it up for you to continue. You're now shown as the author of the first post in the thread, so that you could edit it yourself if needed by clicking on the pencil icon at the top.

As soloist, you will also be the BC (book coordinator) for your project, and will be in charge of filling out the Magic Window. Before you can access a Magic Window for the first time, you will need to set up a password for logging into the workflow system, as described here:

How to log in to the workflow system for the first time

Other instructions for managing the Magic Window can be found on this wiki page:

https://wiki.librivox.org/index.php/Soloists:_How_to_update_the_Magic_Window

In a solo project, you don't have to worry about the things that BCs do in group projects for other readers. You just need to do the following:

1) Fill out the Title column, which will be used in the catalog (hit Enter to save).
2) Put file durations (mm:ss) into the Notes column (click Save to save).
3) Copy file URLs from the uploader and paste them into the Listen URL column (hit Enter to save).
4) Update the status to "ready for PL" and "ready for spot PL", as appropriate.

Let me know if you have any questions. I'll leave this thread here on the Launch Pad for a couple of days before moving it to the Going Solo forum, to see if a DPL (Dedicated Proof-listener) volunteers.

Based on the PL notes posted earlier in this thread, section 2-4 were PL OK and I've marked them as such. For section 1 there was a minor comment, which Jazzman was going to address. I don't know if he did, and it's up to you as the new BC to decide whether it needs to be addressed or if the section can be marked PL OK. If you wish to address it, I think the best way would be to copy and paste the translator's name with the missing "Dr" in Jazzman's voice from another section.

Btw, re sources: I recently contacted Project Ben-Yehuda, which is an Israeli version of the Guttenberg Project. They were very enthusiastic about allowing me to record the open source material they have for Librivox. Is that allowed?

I've commented in the other thread on this topic:

viewtopic.php?t=96278

Michael

[DaniGirl1967]

Ok,
Here is my first roadblock.
The footnotes have both Greek (which I cannot read) and Latin (which I don't know how to pronounce properly).

How do I insert an image here? paste isn't working...

Daniela

[Kazbek]

From our standpoint, footnotes are optional, and you as BC can decide whether to read them. If you decide to read them (or some of them) and would like help with pronunciation, you could post the page/footnote numbers in this thread. There are ways to share images, but that doesn't seem necessary in this case.

Michael