Section 8 is well over an hour in length - will this be broken up and need to be PLed separately? If so, I think I'll wait so I only need to do it once.
Linda
COMPLETE: Librivox Language Learning Collection 001-le
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Nicholas19
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I'm very surprised about this. The length is 1:38:37, which, I think, is too long for a section. I might have to PM Bill Boerst (dread) about this. I think it will need to be split into two sections and we'll have to add another section to this project to fit it in. However, I'll contact Bill first to make sure there hasn't been a mistake here because I thought he divided this into two parts on the 13th of March.putzy a wrote:Sections 4 & 17 is PL OK.
Section 8 is well over an hour in length - will this be broken up and need to be PLed separately? If so, I think I'll wait so I only need to do it once.
Linda
Maybe first Leni can confirm that there isn't an alternative file already uploaded?
Nicholas J. Bridgewater
"The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens."
- Baha'u'llah
See: http://bahai.org/
Some Answered Questions.
The Promulgation of Universal Peace, Vol. I.
An Elementary Greek Grammar.
"The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens."
- Baha'u'llah
See: http://bahai.org/
Some Answered Questions.
The Promulgation of Universal Peace, Vol. I.
An Elementary Greek Grammar.
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Nicholas19
- Posts: 2251
- Joined: June 27th, 2007, 7:04 am
- Location: Riyadh, Saudi Arabia
- Contact:
I have contacted Leni, who has confirmed that there are no other files than the ones in the Magic Window. So, Bill (dread) will have to upload the correct version. I have contacted Bill and am awaiting his reply.
Nicholas J. Bridgewater
"The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens."
- Baha'u'llah
See: http://bahai.org/
Some Answered Questions.
The Promulgation of Universal Peace, Vol. I.
An Elementary Greek Grammar.
"The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens."
- Baha'u'llah
See: http://bahai.org/
Some Answered Questions.
The Promulgation of Universal Peace, Vol. I.
An Elementary Greek Grammar.
I have uploaded the correct version of Part 3 of Samuel Johnson's A Grammar of the English Tongue. The recording URL is http://upload.librivox.org/share/uploads/le/languagelearning001_tongue3_wjb.mp3
The source URL is http://www.gutenberg.org/files/15097/15097-h/15097-h.htm . This part turns out to be considerably shorter than the other three. If you want me to balance the parts, let me know.
-- Bill
The source URL is http://www.gutenberg.org/files/15097/15097-h/15097-h.htm . This part turns out to be considerably shorter than the other three. If you want me to balance the parts, let me know.
-- Bill
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Nicholas19
- Posts: 2251
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Thanks Bill! The length should be fine as long as the file is PL OK.dread wrote:I have uploaded the correct version of Part 3 of Samuel Johnson's A Grammar of the English Tongue. The recording URL is http://upload.librivox.org/share/uploads/le/languagelearning001_tongue3_wjb.mp3
. The source URL is http://www.gutenberg.org/files/15097/15097-h/15097-h.htm. This part turns out to be considerably shorter than the other three. If you want me to balance the parts, let me know.
-- Bill
Nicholas J. Bridgewater
"The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens."
- Baha'u'llah
See: http://bahai.org/
Some Answered Questions.
The Promulgation of Universal Peace, Vol. I.
An Elementary Greek Grammar.
"The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens."
- Baha'u'llah
See: http://bahai.org/
Some Answered Questions.
The Promulgation of Universal Peace, Vol. I.
An Elementary Greek Grammar.
Hi, Linda
Firefox certainly doesn't stop you from using the MW: I use only Firefox to access Librivox. Maybe it's something to do with capitalizing the password, or forgetting the User- part?
If you continue running into problems, feel free to PM me with more specific details about it, and I am sure we can sort it out.
Firefox certainly doesn't stop you from using the MW: I use only Firefox to access Librivox. Maybe it's something to do with capitalizing the password, or forgetting the User- part?
If you continue running into problems, feel free to PM me with more specific details about it, and I am sure we can sort it out.
Leni
=================
=================
Well, well, well, the deliquent, prodigal child has returned!
I'm a little bit unsure about one or two spots, mostly because I also am used to a different pronunciation system. As best I can tell, his pronunciations loosely resemble Late West-Saxon, but with some simplifications in the vowels, and a few changes in the consonants. If all sounds well, however, then that is good enough for me.
8:42
http://upload.librivox.org/share/uploads/le/languagelearning001_pronunciationfirststepsinanglosaxon_jro.mp3
Title of section: Pronunciation, from First Steps in Anglo-Saxon
Author of section: Henry Sweet
Language: Old English / Anglo-Saxon
Link to source: http://books.google.com/books?id=FUtAAAAAYAAJ
Cassiane, I look forward to your feedback especially, and will give your sections a listen as well. Good luck.
I'm a little bit unsure about one or two spots, mostly because I also am used to a different pronunciation system. As best I can tell, his pronunciations loosely resemble Late West-Saxon, but with some simplifications in the vowels, and a few changes in the consonants. If all sounds well, however, then that is good enough for me
.8:42
http://upload.librivox.org/share/uploads/le/languagelearning001_pronunciationfirststepsinanglosaxon_jro.mp3
Title of section: Pronunciation, from First Steps in Anglo-Saxon
Author of section: Henry Sweet
Language: Old English / Anglo-Saxon
Link to source: http://books.google.com/books?id=FUtAAAAAYAAJ
Cassiane, I look forward to your feedback especially, and will give your sections a listen as well.
Good luck.Cassiane,
Well, it has been an interesting and mildly frustrating thing to work through Henry Sweet's writing, as he is a bit imprecise when it comes to linguistic descriptions, especially in phonology.
First, here are some things I was hearing:
Blurred 'r', allowing English 'r' to creep in:
*seō mōdor (this is a typo in his book) => sēo mōdor
*sēo dohtor
ċ could be pronounced more like English "ch" (palatal, rather than velar; slightly further back than in English "ch" - more on this below):
*þæt ċild
*þā rīċu
*þæt rīċe
*sēo ċeaster, þā ċeastra
In this book, he doesn't address sċ at all, though in Germanic languages we have "sh", "sk", "sch", so likely
we could chalk this up to regional accents.
On sċ and ċ:
This one is a bit of a complication, given that Henry Sweet uses strange terminology to describe how to pronounce it. In lWS (late West-Saxon), this consonant is very clearly pronounced closer to ME "ch". From reading Sweet's Primer, he enunciates that he is espousing eWS (early West-Saxon), which could certainly have some real differences in vowels and consonants. There is also some room here for regional variation (as modern Germanic languages have come to pronounce this consonant in many was, as "k", German "ch" in "ach" and "ch" in "ich").
The key is how he describes it: he says it is a "c, formed in that part of the mouth where we form the y in you". Since a normal c (k) is velar, and y is a palatal/palatal-velar approximant, that makes ċ either a palatal-velar or palatal c. If it is palatal-velar, then it is really a palatalised velar stop, which sounds an awful lot like cy/ky (c with a little y sound coming off of it). If it is palatal, it is either a stop, a fricative or an affricate. I think we can rule out fricative, since he would probably describe that more clearly if it were. So the question remains, is this a palatal stop or a palatal affricate? In all honesty, the two sound extraordinarily similar, and Henry Sweet has a bad habit of being unclear with stops and affricates. He may, in fact, not distinguish them at all, since he treats cġ much the same as stops such as c when describing them. Unfortunately, his Primer does not clarify this at all, using nearly the same description as in First Steps. Now, from other scholarship and some modern textbooks, lWS has a definite palatal or alveo-palatal ċ, making it nearly identical with ME "ch". Thus, by my approximation, ċ could be sounded much like ME "ch", but further back in the palatal region. Due to ambiguity, it could also be pronounced as a palatalised c. In this instance, and for accuracy to Henry Sweet's work without muddling it up too much, either pronunciation should be acceptable.
In terms of sċ, Henry Sweet, in neither book, addresses this combination. From other research, lWS has sċ pronounced as ME "sh", but it is possible that eWS had the pronunciation of s+ch, or s+cy, as a student of Henry Sweet might assume, based on his writing on the topic. This is the other area that I would say we can disagree somewhat on, and probably both be right.
Overall, I'm really, really impressed, and found you to have a better pronunciation than most people I come across. I can get fairly annoyed with people inserting their normal (usually American) accents into a foreign language, especially a dead one. I know it's hard for us to get this right consistently, because we just don't immerse ourselves in the sounds often enough to have it be second nature. That's a goal of mine, but we'll see how it goes. :p
In other notes, I've found a huge mistake in my section, by calling ę an e-cedilla, when in fact it is e-ogonek. :p I can re-record that if it is deemed a big enough error.
Sorry for the long post! And let me know if I can change anything....
Well, it has been an interesting and mildly frustrating thing to work through Henry Sweet's writing, as he is a bit imprecise when it comes to linguistic descriptions, especially in phonology.
First, here are some things I was hearing:
Blurred 'r', allowing English 'r' to creep in:
*seō mōdor (this is a typo in his book) => sēo mōdor
*sēo dohtor
ċ could be pronounced more like English "ch" (palatal, rather than velar; slightly further back than in English "ch" - more on this below):
*þæt ċild
*þā rīċu
*þæt rīċe
*sēo ċeaster, þā ċeastra
In this book, he doesn't address sċ at all, though in Germanic languages we have "sh", "sk", "sch", so likely
we could chalk this up to regional accents.
On sċ and ċ:
This one is a bit of a complication, given that Henry Sweet uses strange terminology to describe how to pronounce it. In lWS (late West-Saxon), this consonant is very clearly pronounced closer to ME "ch". From reading Sweet's Primer, he enunciates that he is espousing eWS (early West-Saxon), which could certainly have some real differences in vowels and consonants. There is also some room here for regional variation (as modern Germanic languages have come to pronounce this consonant in many was, as "k", German "ch" in "ach" and "ch" in "ich").
The key is how he describes it: he says it is a "c, formed in that part of the mouth where we form the y in you". Since a normal c (k) is velar, and y is a palatal/palatal-velar approximant, that makes ċ either a palatal-velar or palatal c. If it is palatal-velar, then it is really a palatalised velar stop, which sounds an awful lot like cy/ky (c with a little y sound coming off of it). If it is palatal, it is either a stop, a fricative or an affricate. I think we can rule out fricative, since he would probably describe that more clearly if it were. So the question remains, is this a palatal stop or a palatal affricate? In all honesty, the two sound extraordinarily similar, and Henry Sweet has a bad habit of being unclear with stops and affricates. He may, in fact, not distinguish them at all, since he treats cġ much the same as stops such as c when describing them. Unfortunately, his Primer does not clarify this at all, using nearly the same description as in First Steps. Now, from other scholarship and some modern textbooks, lWS has a definite palatal or alveo-palatal ċ, making it nearly identical with ME "ch". Thus, by my approximation, ċ could be sounded much like ME "ch", but further back in the palatal region. Due to ambiguity, it could also be pronounced as a palatalised c. In this instance, and for accuracy to Henry Sweet's work without muddling it up too much, either pronunciation should be acceptable.
In terms of sċ, Henry Sweet, in neither book, addresses this combination. From other research, lWS has sċ pronounced as ME "sh", but it is possible that eWS had the pronunciation of s+ch, or s+cy, as a student of Henry Sweet might assume, based on his writing on the topic. This is the other area that I would say we can disagree somewhat on, and probably both be right.
Overall, I'm really, really impressed, and found you to have a better pronunciation than most people I come across. I can get fairly annoyed with people inserting their normal (usually American) accents into a foreign language, especially a dead one. I know it's hard for us to get this right consistently, because we just don't immerse ourselves in the sounds often enough to have it be second nature. That's a goal of mine, but we'll see how it goes. :p
In other notes, I've found a huge mistake in my section, by calling ę an e-cedilla, when in fact it is e-ogonek. :p I can re-record that if it is deemed a big enough error.
Sorry for the long post! And let me know if I can change anything....
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Nicholas19
- Posts: 2251
- Joined: June 27th, 2007, 7:04 am
- Location: Riyadh, Saudi Arabia
- Contact:
Excellent, Jon! Thanks for that! The project is now almost complete. We just need some proof-listening and it will be ready to catalogue.composr wrote:Well, well, well, the deliquent, prodigal child has returned!
I'm a little bit unsure about one or two spots, mostly because I also am used to a different pronunciation system. As best I can tell, his pronunciations loosely resemble Late West-Saxon, but with some simplifications in the vowels, and a few changes in the consonants. If all sounds well, however, then that is good enough for me
Cassiane, I look forward to your feedback especially, and will give your sections a listen as well.
The LibriVox Language Learning Collection, Vol. 002 is already open, so feel free to contribute to that as well: http://librivox.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25560
We could certainly use more Old English recordings (or any other language, ancient or modern).
Nicholas J. Bridgewater
"The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens."
- Baha'u'llah
See: http://bahai.org/
Some Answered Questions.
The Promulgation of Universal Peace, Vol. I.
An Elementary Greek Grammar.
"The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens."
- Baha'u'llah
See: http://bahai.org/
Some Answered Questions.
The Promulgation of Universal Peace, Vol. I.
An Elementary Greek Grammar.
-
Nicholas19
- Posts: 2251
- Joined: June 27th, 2007, 7:04 am
- Location: Riyadh, Saudi Arabia
- Contact:
I'll leave it up to Cassiane whether or not to make the changes suggested above, as we have quite an open policy regarding pronunciation. The only requirement is that it be intelligible and follow the text.composr wrote:Cassiane,
Overall, I'm really, really impressed, and found you to have a better pronunciation than most people I come across. I can get fairly annoyed with people inserting their normal (usually American) accents into a foreign language, especially a dead one. I know it's hard for us to get this right consistently, because we just don't immerse ourselves in the sounds often enough to have it be second nature. That's a goal of mine, but we'll see how it goes. :p
Do you want to change it? If so, please make the change asap so we can get this catalogued.composr wrote:In other notes, I've found a huge mistake in my section, by calling ę an e-cedilla, when in fact it is e-ogonek. :p I can re-record that if it is deemed a big enough error.
Let me know if you're planning to make the change.Nicholas J. Bridgewater
"The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens."
- Baha'u'llah
See: http://bahai.org/
Some Answered Questions.
The Promulgation of Universal Peace, Vol. I.
An Elementary Greek Grammar.
"The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens."
- Baha'u'llah
See: http://bahai.org/
Some Answered Questions.
The Promulgation of Universal Peace, Vol. I.
An Elementary Greek Grammar.
-
Nicholas19
- Posts: 2251
- Joined: June 27th, 2007, 7:04 am
- Location: Riyadh, Saudi Arabia
- Contact:
Thanks!!!putzy a wrote:Hi Nicholas,
Section 10 is PL OK
Volume 1 all done.
I'll just wait till we get replies from Cassiane and composr before we complete this one.
BTW, are you interested in being the DPL for the next volume?
Nicholas J. Bridgewater
"The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens."
- Baha'u'llah
See: http://bahai.org/
Some Answered Questions.
The Promulgation of Universal Peace, Vol. I.
An Elementary Greek Grammar.
"The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens."
- Baha'u'llah
See: http://bahai.org/
Some Answered Questions.
The Promulgation of Universal Peace, Vol. I.
An Elementary Greek Grammar.