COMPLETE - The Two Brothers, by Honoré de Balzac - icequeen

[Winnifred]

Chapter 3 is PL OK. Philippe may be hungry, but he certainly doesn't seem embarrassed!

I keep hearing familiar names, and trying to remember which book those characters appeared in before (mostly unsuccessfully). One would need a very large chart to keep track of them all.

Cheers,

[beeber]

I keep hearing familiar names...

Right, and sometimes there are multiple generations involved. For example "Old" Claparon has been a friendly visitor in the evenings at Mme Bridau's. His son is Claparon the fake banker who is part of the fraud perpetrated on César Birotteau. Desroches the elder is another visitor in this book; his son, Desroches the younger, does legal work in Colonel Chabert, and will shortly appear in that capacity in this book.

Chapter 4 is ready for PL.

Bruce

[Winnifred]

Chapter 4 is PL OK. Philippe continues his journey to the devil at an alarming pace!

Cheers,

[beeber]

Chapter 5 is ready for PL.

One correction was necessary. When the original English was electronically scanned to create the Gutenberg text, a proof-reader seems to have got confused, inserting an incorrect "fix." At 40:02, the Gutenberg text reads: "the value of which Madame Bixiou paid over to her grandson Bixiou." The original English (correctly) reads "Madame Bridau paid over...."

Of all the (many) Balzac chapters I have recorded over the years, I found this one the most harrowing in its content. Yes, I know it's "just" fiction, and in fact the plot is veering towards melodrama in this section. Still, I find this section's portrayal of a family in the process of collapse terribly affecting. It seems so real, and so horrible.

[Winnifred]

Harrowing indeed! It would seem that both Madame Descoings and Philippe are addicted to gambling. Hereditary, perhaps?

This is definitely the saddest of the Balzac novels I've read/listened to so far.

PL OK.

Cheers,

[beeber]

Chapter 6 is ready for PL.

There is discussion about sending Philippe to a hospital. Modern readers need to understand the stigma attached to hospitals at that point in history. They were terrible places — usually treating only the very lowest rungs of society. Anyone who could pull together even a modest amount of money would absolutely prefer to summon a doctor to visit them in their own home, rather than being forced to go to a hospital.

Bruce

[Winnifred]

That kind of stigma persisted well into the 19th century, I recall noticing when reading late Victorian English novels. I find it hard to summon any sympathy for Philippe, however. He well and truly made his own bed.

This chapter is PL OK. I wonder if you'll respond with the next chapter (you're really plowing through this book!) Glancing ahead, it looks like the next chapter will be a lot of historical background rather than a progression of the story.

Cheers,

[beeber]

Chapter 7 is ready for PL.

At 34:10, the translator added a lengthy footnote, which I haven't included. (The translator may have wanted to insert mention of what appears to be a relative of hers — "Captain Wormeley.")

You may know that Balzac conceived of the novels in "The Human Comedy" as belonging to different categories: Scenes of Military Life, Scenes of Parisian Life, Scenes of Private Life, etc. You proably didn't guess, based on what you've read so far, that he thought of this book as being one of his "Scenes of Provincial Life." But that is the idea, and that's why we're headed now to Issoudun, with a whole chapter devoted to describing its culture.

It would seem that both Madame Descoings and Philippe are addicted to gambling. Hereditary, perhaps?

Yes, interesting observation. I see it as part of a bigger pattern: Balzac's interest in people's obsessions or "passions." Joseph, at one point, notes that Mme Descoings and Philippe have their "passions" for gambling and smoking, that he has a passion for art, and his mother has a passion for her oldest son. Joseph recognizes that these passions may be irrational, but he shrugs it off — they just seem to be an inescapable part of life. Elsewhere, Balzac calls this kind of ruling obsession a "fixed idea" — idée fixe. Here's an excerpt copied from the Encyclopedia Britannica entry on "idée fixe":

Idée fixe, (French: “fixed idea”) in music and literature, a recurring theme or character trait that serves as the structural foundation of a work. The term was later used in psychology to refer to an irrational obsession that so dominates an individual’s thoughts as to determine his or her actions. An outgrowth of Romanticism, the concept enjoyed its widest circulation during the 19th and the early 20th century.
The notion of idée fixe arose in France in the early 1800s. In music, it is traceable to the composer Hector Berlioz....
In literature, the term idée fixe is largely associated with the French novelist Honoré de Balzac, a contemporary of Berlioz. Balzac used the actual term in his short novel Gobseck (1830) to describe the avarice that ruled the life of the protagonist. Indeed, it is the idée fixe of a central character that is the vital, driving force behind many of Balzac’s narratives. The story line of Eugénie Grandet (1833), for instance, is propelled by a father figure’s miserly quest for wealth, and the plot of Le Père Goriot (1835) revolves around a father’s excessive and, ultimately, fatal affection for his daughters.
In the late 19th century French psychologist Pierre Janet appropriated the label idée fixe for use in a clinical context. ...

[Winnifred]

I've marked this one PL OK, but I do have one note for you: at 47:55, I hear “The fair hostess, with a timid and conciliatory air…” but the text reads “The fat hostess, with a timid and conciliatory air…” I leave it to you to decide whether you want to correct this or not. It seems to me it rather changes the reader's view of this character.

Yes, Balzac certainly did give his characters plenty of idées fixe! And I agree that that footnote doesn't add to the story.

Cheers,

[beeber]

...at 47:55, I hear “The fair hostess, with a timid and conciliatory air…” but the text reads “The fat hostess, with a timid and conciliatory air…”

Right, thank you. That error has been corrected and the file uploaded, ready for spot PL.

Bruce

[Winnifred]

...at 47:55, I hear “The fair hostess, with a timid and conciliatory air…” but the text reads “The fat hostess, with a timid and conciliatory air…”

Right, thank you. That error has been corrected and the file uploaded, ready for spot PL.

Bruce

Spot PL OK!

Thanks,

[beeber]

Chapter 8 is ready for PL.

A small point: at 28:56, an abbey is called "Chézal-Beniot"; it should be "Chézal-Benoît."

This chapter ventures into the creepy neighbourhood of pedophilia — the kind of thing that scandalized English readers of this period when they opened up French novels.

Bruce

[Winnifred]

Chapter 8 is PL OK, with, once again, one optional suggestion: at 40:42-3, I hear “Raised from infancy with no prospect before them but poverty and ceaseless labor, they are led to consider anything that saves them from the hell of hunger and external toil as permissible, …” but the text reads “Raised from infancy with no prospect before them but poverty and ceaseless labor, they are led to consider anything that saves them from the hell of hunger and eternal toil as permissible, …” I think maybe you might want to fix that.

Pedophilia and slavery here. Although nobody calls it that, the doctor does actually buy Flore from her uncle.

Cheers,

[beeber]

Chapter 8 is PL OK, with, once again, one optional suggestion: at 40:42-3....

Thank you! The chapter is fixed and re-uploaded.

Bruce

[Winnifred]

Chapter 8 is PL OK, with, once again, one optional suggestion: at 40:42-3....

Thank you! The chapter is fixed and re-uploaded.

Bruce

Spot PL OK!