COMPLETE: [MATH] - Fifty Digits of Pi; Scott Hemphill - tc

Great Plains · Post by **Great Plains** » March 8th, 2008, 11:00 pm

I can't sing well enough to do it. But someone should do a parody of that Popcorn song.

digitaltoast · Post by **digitaltoast** » March 9th, 2008, 2:59 am

chocoholic wrote:It's a good point to remind people of so everyone understands what they're saying in that disclaimer. Each file (not just each project) has the disclaimer, partly so every volunteer will realize that his/her reading is being released into the PD. So Toast, that does mean your guy would have to include it.

Oh well, we lose:

a talented artist who wrote two songs about pi wrote:I don't know that I have so much sway, and I would really prefer not to join yet another forum - but if you'd like to link to my songs and let people know they can be used if not made public domain, that's probably the best help we could hope for with my songs towards changing the policy... At any rate, at least a few more Pi fans will get to enjoy them. Pity about the policy though!

chocoholic wrote:Speaking of copyright, I am not sure if the references to LOTR characters will be OK to include

Lol!

SSherris wrote:Here's one discussion in the "Off-Topic" forum, interestingly enough: http://librivox.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12272

Of course you're welcome to start your own there as well.

See also:
http://librivox.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12681
http://librivox.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11690
http://librivox.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11713
http://librivox.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6091
http://librivox.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11147

Sometimes, I just don't understand policies which almost seem designed to put people off. For example, I will never bother recording for Wikipedia while they have this ridiculous "ogg only" policy - how many mobile streaming/media players/wi-fi players can stream an ogg file?!
(Not that I have anything against the ogg format, it's just the betamax of the encoding world!).

Anyway, I'll pick on of those other threads and continue my point there, this isn't the place for copyright discussions. I was merely pointing out we lost two great songs about pi from a pro because of the disclaimer.

a.r.dobbs · Post by **a.r.dobbs** » March 9th, 2008, 6:31 pm

Hey folks, hi ...
such a marvelous, spirited thread and project here!

I'm convinced that anything added to the content, beyond the LV intro and outro and reader's name and so on, needs to be snipped out of the clips before they're catalogued.

Just the PD text and the bits about LV and reader. That's always been the limit on any catalogued materials except the Community Podcast.

Keeps it very simple.

Even the great wonderful cool fantastic informative bit that Scott wrote in his PM and that folks would love to include in the collection really shouldn't be included there -- it'd be superb in a Community Podcast though (which is also PD, of course).

So... I hope you all agree, the voices actually need no introduction.

The recordings are absolutely as cool without the character name being spoken.

Great Plains · Post by **Great Plains** » March 9th, 2008, 6:57 pm

a.r.dobbs wrote:I'm convinced that anything added to the content, beyond the LV intro and outro and reader's name and so on, needs to be snipped out of the clips before they're catalogued.

Why? If it's in the public domain, there's no problems an far as I can tell. What's up?

Steampunk · Post by **Steampunk** » March 9th, 2008, 7:33 pm

Great Plains wrote:
a.r.dobbs wrote:I'm convinced that anything added to the content, beyond the LV intro and outro and reader's name and so on, needs to be snipped out of the clips before they're catalogued.
Why? If it's in the public domain, there's no problems an far as I can tell. What's up?

Agreed. How is our independent content added outside the intro/outro and PG text (which isn't even the complete PG text, it's only the first 50 digits -- so we're up to one editorial decision right out of the gate) different than people adding their locations, web sites, e-mail etc etc. Not to mention the NaNoWriMo collections, which are entirely original and in the PD because we say it is... Not to mention (even though it already has been) the Community Podcasts, which (again) are in the PD because we say it is...

Unless there's a specific legal issue (and I don't see that there is) I say they stay as is. Saying "it's policy" and doing it for that reason alone
isn't--IMHO--sufficient, especially when exceptions have been, and are routinely, made.

Jim

Shurtagal · Post by **Shurtagal** » March 9th, 2008, 9:19 pm

Wow wonderful guys; sorry I wasn't here during the day. (My day that is.)

Great Plains- love the landing recording, particularly the reference to Euler's Number (e = 2.71828....) a pity there is no true e day.

Jerome - Wonderful, love the gandalf impression great to get those out of you!

Scott - Thanks for the hebrew.

I need to sleep now but will respond l8er to concerns on how much of speaker original content to keep.

digitaltoast · Post by **digitaltoast** » March 10th, 2008, 12:35 am

a.r.dobbs wrote:Hey folks, hi ...
such a marvelous, spirited thread and project here!

Yes, it was, until...

a.r.dobbs wrote:I'm convinced that anything added to the content, beyond the LV intro and outro and reader's name and so on, needs to be snipped out of the clips before they're catalogued.
So... I hope you all agree, the voices actually need no introduction. The recordings are absolutely as cool without the character name being spoken.

And many would make no sense, some would end up sounding daft and pointless, some would lose their anchor of reference....

Great Plains wrote: Why? If it's in the public domain, there's no problems an far as I can tell. What's up?

Agreed.

Steampunk wrote:Unless there's a specific legal issue (and I don't see that there is) I say they stay as is. Saying "it's policy" and doing it for that reason alone
isn't--IMHO--sufficient, especially when exceptions have been, and are routinely, made.

Totally agree, too.

Looking back at the list, and remembering the ones I've heard, I can see at least 11 good ones you'd have to totally lose right off, plus three of mine.

ductapeguy · Post by **ductapeguy** » March 10th, 2008, 7:14 am

Actually because of its ephemeral nature and the community nature of the podcast, we have from time to time exercised a bit of flexibility with the licensing of the podcast. The spoken content is always declared as public domain, but from time to time we have used CC licensed music and other materials that we have explained are CC licensed and not released into the public domain. As a musician I release my music under a creative commons license, but I have no interest in releasing it into the public domain.

The main Librivox catalog is another thing altogether. I can see Anita's point here. A couple of the core values of Librivox are that we record works in the public domain exactly as they were published without additions or omissions. Having said that, I believe that the core PD ness of the "Value of the first 50 digits of PI" is intact in all this project's recordings.

This project has been excellent for building community and exercising creativity. As an alternative, we could release it as a special podcast rather than cataloging it in the main catalog. Then we would also have the flexibility to include the two copyrighted songs (with the artist's permission) if they were more amenable to CC licensing.

Shurtagal · Post by **Shurtagal** » March 10th, 2008, 6:17 pm

Anita - Thank you for voicing your concerns.

Firstly let me say that I went into this knowing that there was no LV precedent for such projects and so understood the risk. Now, I must confess, when I got the first reading that included material of the speakers creating I was a bit concerned of running into LV policy issues. But, as it is no concerns were voiced at that time and so precedent was set and others followed. (I'm not saying this means it must be allowed, it's just why it did continue.) I myself see no problem with the recordings and think that they are incredible and hilarious, as well as mostly in keeping with the structure of LV in as far as the readings which require no set up or background information. I do however see your point on the other recordings which DO include extra content, however, as Sean points out, "the core PD ness of the 'Value of the first 50 digits of PI' is intact in all this project's recordings" also all of the extra content is freely contributed to the public domain. I also recognize your right/authority as MCs to make the final call on cataloging, whatever the final decision may be.

On a different note, I would like to point out that this has been a great community builder and a wonderful way to get to know my (our) fellow volunteers better.

To those of you who did volunteer for this project: I would like to let you know that I have all of the files and if they don't get cataloged they will be made available in some other format or medium some where. I also believe strongly that this was a great exercise in creativity. Thanks to ALL.

a.r.dobbs · Post by **a.r.dobbs** » March 10th, 2008, 6:35 pm

Shurtagal, what a gracious post!

digitaltoast wrote:
a.r.dobbs wrote:Hey folks, hi ...
such a marvelous, spirited thread and project here!
Yes, it was, until...
a.r.dobbs wrote:I'm convinced that anything added to the content, beyond the LV intro and outro and reader's name and so on, needs to be snipped out of the clips before they're catalogued.
So... I hope you all agree, the voices actually need no introduction. The recordings are absolutely as cool without the character name being spoken.

ow!

digitaltoast wrote:Looking back at the list, and remembering the ones I've heard, I can see at least 11 good ones you'd have to totally lose right off, plus three of mine.

Maybe there's another way.
Maybe this can be pointedly pointed out as the exception to what is generally an excellent rule -- maybe the catalogue page could clearly note -- in a humorous tone to match most of the posts in this project -- that in honor of Pi and the community, LV's policy of "Just the text" was slightly relaxed this once.

Exceptional circumstances are what exceptions are supposed to apply to. And it looks like a case could be made here. So maybe we can preserve the bathtub and the baby, and let everything else kind of drain away, eh?

Oh, and maybe Scott's momentous post to the thread could be included on the catalogue page, too. It really is such a wonderful project.

Also, maybe the songs could go in a CommuniPi Podcast, so everything gets included one way or another?

Post by **chocoholic** » March 10th, 2008, 8:24 pm

Shurtagal, I think you missed one.
http://upload.librivox.org/share/uploads/tc/pi_50_borg_ehl.mp3
From Starlite, back on Page 8. Can't leave out that one.

Shurtagal · Post by **Shurtagal** » March 10th, 2008, 9:13 pm

Thank you Chocoholic.
For whatever reason I did miss that. Its funny I remember listening to it but its not in the box well now it is.
TY Esther.

Jerome · Post by **Jerome** » March 11th, 2008, 1:19 am

I know this is kind of last-minute, but I was waiting to see how things would pan out about
more creative versions being allowed. Hope it's not too late to submit a couple more.

Call me silly, but I just had to do a version in the style of one of those over-hyped kitchen gadget infomercials:

http://upload.librivox.org/share/uploads/tc/pi_50_infomercial_jl.mp3

And one as everybody's favorite cartoon moose:

http://upload.librivox.org/share/uploads/tc/pi_50_bullwinkle_jl.mp3

digitaltoast · Post by **digitaltoast** » March 11th, 2008, 2:06 am

Shurtagal wrote:But, as it is no concerns were voiced at that time and so precedent was set and others followed. (I'm not saying this means it must be allowed, it's just why it did continue.)

Yeah, that's how I saw it - I forgot the first one I heard that wasn't "just the numbers", but I heard that and thought "right, fair game then!".

Incidentally, if we're on the subject of reading EXACTLY what is in the text, I was reading a technical book a few months back, and, for example, there was the technical "core" of the text, and on many pages, there were foot notes, for example, to explain what the latin root of the word was.
When I asked how best to read these footnotes, I was told "no footnotes please". Personally, I felt it lost some quite interesting parts of the book, but that was the judgment of the BC. So I guess things can be interpreted on a "per book" basis?

Great Plains · Post by **Great Plains** » March 11th, 2008, 2:15 am

I don't think this is a problem either way. If the coordinator of this project deems to remove the "offending" entries, then we can just take those and submit them to Archive.org as a separate, non-LibriVox project.