[COMP] Parallel Lives of the Noble Greeks/Romans 1 - km

[kmerline]

May I have sections 7 and 14 please?

Thank you for volunteering, Great Plains, the sections are yours.

[kmerline]

The introduction is yours, Graham, thank you!

Hardly sooner said than done!

7 mins, 21 secs; 7.06MB

http://upload.librivox.org/share/uploads/km/parallellives01_00_plutarchperrin.mp3

Graham

Thank you Graham. The quality is superb. I've marked the window.

[Great Plains]

May I have sections 7 and 14 please?

Thank you for volunteering, Great Plains, the sections are yours.

The translator's name---how is it pronounced?

I have Bernadotte (bĕrnädôt') Perrin (pĕrăN'). Does that look about right? "ber-nah-DAHT per-AHN"?

[lezer]

That would be my guess for the pronunciation too.

[AGSec]

May I have sections 7 and 14 please?

Thank you for volunteering, Great Plains, the sections are yours.

The translator's name---how is it pronounced?

I have Bernadotte (bĕrnädôt') Perrin (pĕrăN'). Does that look about right? "ber-nah-DAHT per-AHN"?

I checked Bernadotte out myself before reading the Introduction, so I'm confident that the recording I posted (already up in the "magic box") has the correct pronunciation of Bernadotte. You may be right about Perrin, but I've used the anglicised pronunciation.

Graham

[AGSec]

Take a look at this link:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/bernadotte

I've assumed (perhaps wrongly) that someone translating Greek into English is likely to be English, rather than French, and would therefore pronounce his name in the English way (e.g. Lea and Perrin's Worcestershire Sauce)

Graham

[Great Plains]

From the Guide to the Bernadotte Perrin Papers

Biographical Sketch

Bernadotte Perrin, B.A. 1869.

Born September 15, 1847, in Goshen, Conn.

Died August 31, 1920, at Saratoga Springs, N. Y.

Bernadotte Perrin was the son of Rev. Lavalette Perrin (B.A. 1840), a Congregational minister, and Ann Eliza (Comstock) Perrin, and was born in Goshen, Conn., September 15, 1847. His father was at one time associate editor of the Religious Herald of Hartford, and served from 1882 until his death in 1889 as a member of the Yale Corporation. He was the son of Aaron and Lois (Lee) Perrin, and the grandson of Thomas Perrin (or Pering), who came from England to Massachusetts in 1690, removed in 1709 to Lebanon, Conn., and later settled at Hebron, Conn. The family is of French-Huguenot descent, Bernadotte Perrin's given name being that of one of the marshals of Napoleon's army who was later King of Sweden. John Porter, who settled at Windsor, Conn., in 1639, was also an ancestor on the paternal side. Ann Eliza Comstock Perrin's parents were William and Ann (Keeler) Comstock. She traced her descent to William Comstock, who came from Culmstock, Devonshire, England, to Watertown, Mass., in 1635 or 1636, later settled at Wethersfield, Conn., and subsequently moved to New London.

Emphasis added.

Looks like the French pronunciation may be the preferred, though given that Perrin himself was American, I guess either would work.

[AGSec]

It looks as though "you pays your money and you takes your choice"!

A number of Huguenot families in England have anglicised the pronunciation of their names over the years, and as Thomas Perrin (or Pering) came from England as long ago as 1690, it could have happened either before or after that date - or not at all!

Perhaps there is someone out there who had a grandfather who was taught by him at Yale and can help: we've had a similar problem about J.B. Bury who wrote a history of Greece (see the Readers Found forum); I know, by oral tradition, that his name is pronounced to rhyme with "fury" having in my younger days attended lectures by Russell Meiggs (rhymes with "eggs"), who was his reviser.

Graham

[Great Plains]

Yeah, you may be right.

[kmerline]

Fascinating! Thank you both for your input. 'Fraid I've nothing to add, clarification-wise!

[Great Plains]

Any suggestions on what this gem of a sentence is supposed to mean?

I. SUCH, then, are the memorable things about Romulus and Theseus which I have been able to learn. And it appears, first of all, that Theseus , of his own choice, when no one compelled him, but when it was possible for him to reign without fear at Troezen as heir to no inglorious realm, of his own accord reached out after great achievements; whereas Romulus, to escape present servitude and impending punishment, became simply “courageous out of fear,” as Plato phrases it, 1 and through the dread of extreme penalties proceeded to perform great exploits under compulsion. In the second place, the chief deed of Romulus was the slaying of a single tyrant of Alba; whereas for mere by-adventures and preliminary struggles Theseus had Sciron , Sinis , Procrustes , and Corynetes, by slaying and chastising whom he freed Greece from dreadful tyrants before those who were saved by him knew who he was. Theseus might have travelled to Athens by sea without any trouble, and suffering no outrage at the hands of those robbers; whereas Romulus could not be without trouble while Amulius lived. And there is strong proof of this; for Theseus , although he had suffered no wrong at their hands himself, sallied out in behalf of others against those miscreants; while Romulus and Remus, as long as they themselves were not harmed by the tyrant, suffered him to wrong everybody else. And surely, if it was a great thing for Romulus to be wounded in a battle with the Sabines , and to slay Acron, and to conquer many enemies in battle, with these exploits we may compare, on the part of Theseus , his battle with the Centaurs and his campaign against the Amazons; but as for the daring which he showed about the Cretan tribute, whether that was food for some monster, or a sacrifice on the tomb of Androgeos , or whether and this is the mildest form of the story he offered himself for inglorious and dishonourable servitude among insolent and cruel men when he volunteered to sail away with maidens and young boys, words cannot depict such courage, magnanimity , righteous zeal for the common good, or yearning for glory and virtue. It is therefore my opinion that the philosophers 1 give an excellent definition of love when they call it “a ministration of the gods for the care and preservation of the young.” For Ariadne’s love seems to have been, more than anything else, a god’s work, and a device whereby Theseus should be saved. And we should not blame her for loving him, but rather wonder that all men and women were not thus affected towards him; and if she alone felt this passion, I should say, for my part, that she was properly worthy of a god’s love, since she was fond of virtue, fond of goodness, and a lover of the highest qualities in man.

[AGSec]

The Clough translation in Project Gutenberg reads "while, as mere by-adventures and preludes, the other can name Sciron, Sinnis, Procrustes, and Corynetes; by reducing and killing of whom, he rid Greece of terrible oppressors, before any of them that were relieved knew who did it." I.e. It was only incidentally [to his principal deeds] that Theseus chastised and killed Sciron, Sinis, Procrustes, and Corynetes, and thereby freed Greece etc.

Hope this helps.

Graham

[kmerline]

Thats what I think, too. It's as if he's saying, Here's a great man, but one of no ordinary greatness. For starters, before he was even famous, he did [something really difficult and important]. Then he went on to do [even greater things] which every one knows about.

[Great Plains]

Oooohhhhh! Okay, I think I understand now.

Thanks!

[Pam]

I may regret this, but can I proof listen. Please?

Pam