Internet Archive in a Court Case over Fair Use

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lightcrystal
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Post by lightcrystal »

No idea what to think. I am not a lawyer. But if anyone is interested:

https://www.popsci.com/technology/internet-archive-lawsuit/
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mightyfelix
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Post by mightyfelix »

This has been going on for awhile now. Like the article said, this started back in 2020. I don't think it's anything that need concern us here. Even if the ruling went against them, which I personally rather doubt, I expect it would only affect the still-under-copyright works that they have. I don't see them going under because of this, and since everything we do is public domain, no court can touch it.
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Post by Steve »

quartertone
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Post by quartertone »

Steve wrote: March 20th, 2023, 11:09 pm An update from The Register:

https://www.theregister.com/2023/03/20/internet_archive_lawsuit_latest/

Oohf, feels like it's on a razor's edge!
annise
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Post by annise »

This is about Archives rights to lend books under copyright when they own that book and only 1 person can read it at a time, not about out of copyright books (USA)
And indirectly it is about copyright holders' entitlement to be recompensed.
So that it is not about us and Archive at all.

Anne
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Post by quartertone »

annise wrote: March 21st, 2023, 1:37 am This is about Archives rights to lend books under copyright when they own that book and only 1 person can read it at a time, not about out of copyright books (USA)
And indirectly it is about copyright holders' entitlement to be recompensed.
So that it is not about us and Archive at all.

Anne
I would disagree.
Since, from what I understand, the Internet Archive is a very big reason for LibriVox's continued existence, anything that adversely affects IA will eventually reach LibriVox in some way. If IA loses this battle (let's surely hope they don't) that would mean the end of their core reason for existence. If the book publishers are successful in stopping Controlled Digital Lending, not only will the Internet Archive be crippled, so will all the hundreds of libraries that also lend digital copies of their physically owned books.

If the Internet Archive goes down, so eventually will LibriVox, at least with its current reliance on Archive.

Saying that this lawsuit has nothing to do with the Archive-LibriVox relationship is like saying that a marital divorce is not something the children need to concern themselves with.

Don't worry, little one <pat> <pat>. Mommy and Daddy still ... "love" each other ...

Ok maybe the divorce metaphor doesn't fit. How about "severe illness of a parent".



Recommended reading:
https://blog.archive.org/tag/lawsuit/

I read through most of the press statements, and it feels good to know that at least there are strong supporters on the right side of this issue.
redrun
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Post by redrun »

quartertone wrote: March 21st, 2023, 4:26 am
annise wrote: March 21st, 2023, 1:37 am This is about Archives rights to lend books under copyright when they own that book and only 1 person can read it at a time, not about out of copyright books (USA)
And indirectly it is about copyright holders' entitlement to be recompensed.
So that it is not about us and Archive at all.

Anne
If IA loses this battle (let's surely hope they don't) that would mean the end of their core reason for existence. If the book publishers are successful in stopping Controlled Digital Lending, not only will the Internet Archive be crippled, so will all the hundreds of libraries that also lend digital copies of their physically owned books.

I agree it affects IA to a certain degree, so there's the possibility it will affect us indirectly. But I'll echo that IA's core mission continues even if they lose as badly as possible on this case and all appeals and follow-ups:
The Internet Archive, a 501(c)(3) non-profit, is building a digital library of Internet sites and other cultural artifacts in digital form. Like a paper library, we provide free access to researchers, historians, scholars, people with print disabilities, and the general public. Our mission is to provide Universal Access to All Knowledge (emphasis added).

This decision and any following could impact two things IA does - lending in-copyright works and internet sites to the general public - but those are only two methods of furthering IA's goal. Lending those same works to researchers and people with disabilities, or even licensing them for lending to the public as some other libraries do, are other methods that IA can and will pursue if this case goes badly.

Sharing out-of-copyright works is and will continue to be a method of furthering IA's goal which is legally unassailable. IA is capable of changing what it does, and it will not disappear if it has to further limit sharing of in-copyright works in the US, because so much of its core mission involves knowledge in works which no US law can touch.
redrun
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Post by redrun »

Here's just to add: last night's LV and IA outage was not related to the lawsuit at all. It seems something went wrong at the datacenter where IA's servers are, and other folks with servers in the same place were affected too.
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Post by TriciaG »

Agreed, with your post above.
redrun wrote: March 22nd, 2023, 4:42 am Here's just to add: last night's LV and IA outage was not related to the lawsuit at all. It seems something went wrong at the datacenter where IA's servers are, and other folks with servers in the same place were affected too.
Yes - it was a power outage. Seems like PG&E is an unreliable electrical utility. :roll:
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annise
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Post by annise »

There have been some strange weather events on the west coast judging from our TV - they can't make life easy for power suppliers :D
Anne
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Post by Kazbek »

A couple of years ago an article in Vox analyzed the part of the lawsuit that could affect us in theory. The money quote (pun intended):
Then there’s the concern that the lawsuit asks for potentially debilitating financial damages from the archive. If it were true that the publishers claimed $150,000 for each of the millions of books digitized, that could certainly paralyze the entire nonprofit organization.

But in fact, the lawsuit seeks financial damages only for the sharing of 127 books under copyright, including titles like Gone Girl, A Dance with Dragons, and The Catcher in the Rye. If the court awards the plaintiffs the maximum amount provided under the law, the most the Internet Archive would have to pay would be $19 million — essentially equivalent to one year of operating revenue, according to IA tax documents. That’s a huge setback, but for the IA, a tech nonprofit that relies heavily on grants and public donations, it’s not the major death blow it might seem to be.
We're talking worst case scenario.

Michael
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Post by patrickrandall »

There was an opinion issued today after Monday's hearing, according to this Twitter thread by a copyright expert. She says it did not go in Internet Archive's favor, :( but she thinks they will likely appeal.

https://twitter.com/CopyrightLibn/status/1639406611524382720

Edit: Blog post from Internet Archive saying they will appeal:

http://blog.archive.org/2023/03/25/the-fight-continues/
czandra
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Post by czandra »

Judicial ruling against Internet Archive recently. Looks like they put up a poor defence (what, you paid for the book so it's okay to copy it??)

Still, I can't see how this would affect LV really, since our works are PD. I don't know whether it matters that some are still in print, because MC's insist we use copies that are not under copyright.

But I think we're somehow subsumed under IA? If so, that should be an argument for their lawyers (get new lawyers!) that IA is actually "transforming" the books, which is the caveat that allows Google to get away with it, apparently.

It should be only applicable to current publications, and I don't know why IA would have uploaded those. Still, it kept me awake last night feeling despondent that all could be for nought!

Czandra
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