Section 9 (20:21)
https://librivox.org/uploads/kazbek/genesis1_09_luther_128kb.mp3
[COMPLETE] Commentary on Genesis, Vol. I by Martin Luther - kaz
Advice, please!
There's a whole chunk that has been duplicated (but not 100% identically so) at the end of "God's work on the second day". I suppose the answer is, "D'uh, yes", but I'll ask anyway: do I have to read it exactly as is? Listeners will think I've had a funny turn......
There's a whole chunk that has been duplicated (but not 100% identically so) at the end of "God's work on the second day". I suppose the answer is, "D'uh, yes", but I'll ask anyway: do I have to read it exactly as is? Listeners will think I've had a funny turn......
It's quite long. It's as if he had translated it one way and then re-did it slightly differently, but kept both versions.
"For how can we understand that order which God himself establishes and approves. Yes, reason must here be put to shame, for what is order in the eyes of God we judge to be the confusion of order. Thus the stars seem to us to be arranged thoughtlessly in wild disorder in that the bright ones are scattered among those more obscure, and the lesser among the greater. Who would judge this to be order? And yet it is the most perfect harmony, so constituted by the all-wise mind itself. In like manner we judge of other matters. It seems confusing that our Elbe and all rivers flow to the sea in an irregular winding course. Such disorder there seems to be also among trees, yes, between man and wife, where it appears there is no order. But all this only proves that God is a God of order and that his judgment as to order is quite different than ours.
We therefore cease to follow more curiously the question why God added twice to the third day, "And God saw," etc., and omitted it on the second day. Nor will we conclude rashly whether the work of the second day was finished in the third day or not. Philosophers have handed down the rudiments of the arts and of the science of astronomy, and in doing so they divided the heaven into various spheres. We have a much simpler theory or science, in that we at once make God the immediate Creator of all things by his Word, Dixit, "And God said."
For how can we understand that order which God approves as such? Nay, our natural reason must here of necessity be confounded; for that which is order with God is in our judgment confusion. Hence the stars appear to us to be in a state of wild disorder; the bright being mingled with the more obscure, and the lesser with the greater. Who would judge this to be order? And yet it is consummate harmony; and so constituted by the all-wise Mind. And so we judge of other things. Our river Elbe seems a confusion; as do all other rivers also; because their streams empty themselves into the sea by winding courses. In the same manner trees seem to present a confusion. Nor do males and females in the world and their unions and combinations appear to be a state of order. All here also as to the appearance of things is disorder and confusion. All these things therefore unitedly prove that God possesses an order, and judges of it, differently from ourselves."
Cease we therefore to penetrate into these things with too much curiosity, why it is that God repeats the divine sentence in question twice during the work of the third day and omits it altogether in the work of the second day? Nor determine we rashly whether the work of the second day was finished on the third day or not. Philosophers laid down the rudiments of the arts and of the science of astronomy; and in so doing they divided the heaven into its various spheres. But we adopt a simpler and more true method of procedure and judgment; for we at once make God the immediate Creator of all things by his Word, "And God said." "
"For how can we understand that order which God himself establishes and approves. Yes, reason must here be put to shame, for what is order in the eyes of God we judge to be the confusion of order. Thus the stars seem to us to be arranged thoughtlessly in wild disorder in that the bright ones are scattered among those more obscure, and the lesser among the greater. Who would judge this to be order? And yet it is the most perfect harmony, so constituted by the all-wise mind itself. In like manner we judge of other matters. It seems confusing that our Elbe and all rivers flow to the sea in an irregular winding course. Such disorder there seems to be also among trees, yes, between man and wife, where it appears there is no order. But all this only proves that God is a God of order and that his judgment as to order is quite different than ours.
We therefore cease to follow more curiously the question why God added twice to the third day, "And God saw," etc., and omitted it on the second day. Nor will we conclude rashly whether the work of the second day was finished in the third day or not. Philosophers have handed down the rudiments of the arts and of the science of astronomy, and in doing so they divided the heaven into various spheres. We have a much simpler theory or science, in that we at once make God the immediate Creator of all things by his Word, Dixit, "And God said."
For how can we understand that order which God approves as such? Nay, our natural reason must here of necessity be confounded; for that which is order with God is in our judgment confusion. Hence the stars appear to us to be in a state of wild disorder; the bright being mingled with the more obscure, and the lesser with the greater. Who would judge this to be order? And yet it is consummate harmony; and so constituted by the all-wise Mind. And so we judge of other things. Our river Elbe seems a confusion; as do all other rivers also; because their streams empty themselves into the sea by winding courses. In the same manner trees seem to present a confusion. Nor do males and females in the world and their unions and combinations appear to be a state of order. All here also as to the appearance of things is disorder and confusion. All these things therefore unitedly prove that God possesses an order, and judges of it, differently from ourselves."
Cease we therefore to penetrate into these things with too much curiosity, why it is that God repeats the divine sentence in question twice during the work of the third day and omits it altogether in the work of the second day? Nor determine we rashly whether the work of the second day was finished on the third day or not. Philosophers laid down the rudiments of the arts and of the science of astronomy; and in so doing they divided the heaven into its various spheres. But we adopt a simpler and more true method of procedure and judgment; for we at once make God the immediate Creator of all things by his Word, "And God said." "
I found Dr Cole's translation the other day and wished I had gone with that. Too late now!
In fact, I've just answered my own question. On checking Dr Cole's text, I discovered that the repeated paragraphs are actually his. Possibly whoever digitised Lenker's translation had Dr Cole's to hand as well and has ended up adding it.
I'm going to go with the first two paragraphs I posted, assuming those are Lenker's.
Thanks!
I'm going to go with the first two paragraphs I posted, assuming those are Lenker's.
Thanks!
Ok, thanks. I agree.
We do normally stick with a single translation for a project, but if you really want to switch to the other one, I could check with fellow admins to see if we allow mixing translations in exceptional cases. Let me know.
Michael
We do normally stick with a single translation for a project, but if you really want to switch to the other one, I could check with fellow admins to see if we allow mixing translations in exceptional cases. Let me know.
Michael
Thanks.
No, I'd better stick to the Lenker version. It's more up-to-date language etc.
(That's a future option, perhaps, to do Dr Cole's version.)
No, I'd better stick to the Lenker version. It's more up-to-date language etc.
(That's a future option, perhaps, to do Dr Cole's version.)
Argh! On a hunch, I decided to check back more and I find that a lot of the text ascribed to Lenker is word for word from Dr Cole's version.
Basically, it seems to be a big mess.
So, I think I'm going to abandon this project and re-start with Dr Cole's translation.
Just as well no-one wasted time on PL'ing.
Thanks for your help! I'll launch the other version soon.
Basically, it seems to be a big mess.
So, I think I'm going to abandon this project and re-start with Dr Cole's translation.
Just as well no-one wasted time on PL'ing.
Thanks for your help! I'll launch the other version soon.
That's not entirely surprising, given the description:
Michael
We can keep this one around for a while longer until you're sure about the switch. You can post here any time to confirm or revise your decision.BASED ON DR. HENRY COLE'S TRANSLATION FROM THE ORIGINAL LATIN.
REVISED, ENLARGED, PARTS RETRANSLATED AND EDITED IN COMPLETE FORM
Michael
Okay, thanks. I might do the two in tandem.
If I do, I'll be cutting those duplicated parts. Giving the same passage twice in two slightly different versions makes Luther out to have some form of dementia. It's not normal ...
If I do, I'll be cutting those duplicated parts. Giving the same passage twice in two slightly different versions makes Luther out to have some form of dementia. It's not normal ...
Section 10 (34:21) GOD'S WORK ON THE SECOND DAY
https://librivox.org/uploads/kazbek/genesis1_10_luther_128kb.mp3
https://librivox.org/uploads/kazbek/genesis1_10_luther_128kb.mp3
I'll get back to this soon, now that the Cole translation proper is all but finished.
Section 11 = the work of the third day (23:00)
https://librivox.org/uploads/kazbek/genesis1_11_luther_128kb.mp3
https://librivox.org/uploads/kazbek/genesis1_11_luther_128kb.mp3
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pattymarie
- Posts: 2795
- Joined: April 18th, 2006, 12:17 pm
Sections 1 and 2 are pl ok. Seeing my own post here from Jan. 6 I realize it's that I forgot to bookmark the project; not the first time for that. I don't subscribe because of how many e-mails I receive, but come to the site frequently to check on notifications from projects I've bookmarked but of course didn't see these because I hadn't bookmarked the project. 
Pattymarie