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Elizabby
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Post by Elizabby » January 25th, 2019, 5:18 pm

I recently participated in VocaliD - it's a thing for people who can't talk to download words/speech recorded by others. It's quite easy to do, and not unlike volunteering here. You read off a page and record (for example the Gettysberg Address) and they process it into a vocabulary for someone to use on their computer as their voice.

Anyway, after I'd recorded a certain amount for them, they sent me a little certificate, saying that I've now contributed a certain number of sentences to their library. Then another one a bit later, then another one when I got to 3500 sentences (which is the end, as that's what they need to make a full voice for someone). I didn't keep all of them, but I kept the final one.

Then I thought - there's nothing stopping us from doing something similar! If one of the cover makers could be interested in designing a "Librivox certificate" it could be emailed or PM'd to people after achieving 25 recorded sections, or 50, or 100 or 1000! It could have a gold medal or a star on it! It costs nothing and if it makes people happy, why not?

I'm not a graphic designer myself, but I don't think it would be very hard to do. The tricky part would be knowing when someone has a certain number of sections in the catalogue, as I don't believe these stats are automatically tracked? Then getting access to their email - it would have to be an admin who takes that on - but overall I'd say it would be less work than forwarding all the individual "thank a reader" messages, and that's already being done.

And I've just realised, it would also be possible to send people a certificate, or even just post a link to it on their test thread saying "Congratulations! You've passed your 1 minute test! You are now licensed to record anywhere on the Librivox site!" (I just thought of that, because I know some people find the 1 minute test quite a tricky hurdle, and I always tell them that the first section getting the OK is the hardest!)
Last edited by Elizabby on January 26th, 2019, 8:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

TriciaG
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Post by TriciaG » January 25th, 2019, 6:12 pm

If someone wants to do this on their own, then all power to them.
The tricky part would be knowing when someone has a certain number of sections in the catalogue, as I don't believe these stats are automatically tracked? Then getting access to their email - it would have to be an admin who takes that on - but overall I'd say it would be less work than forwarding all the individual "thank a reader" messages, and that's already being done.
No, this is not automatically tracked. I think it would be hard to do. I THINK the API could be used to compile a list of readers with how many sections they've recorded, but one would have to be a programmer to do it. And one would have to keep track of who has received a certificate already, so that the next time the list is pulled, they don't get another certificate for the same accomplishment.

The "thank a reader" messages get sent to PM, not to email. And pulling the stats for this would be a lot harder than posting emails received at a certain email address, then PM'ing the referenced reader about it.

So as the system stands right now, it would be a LOT of work to do, but it's technically possible. I don't see us allocating "official" resources to do it, though, since it would take so much time, possibly money to get the stats and keep track of it.
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annise
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Post by annise » January 25th, 2019, 6:16 pm

Tricia types quicker
Wearing no hat
The 1 minute test would be nice , it would need to be set up so that it was very easy to send and that is a bit outside my skill level

Anne

TriciaG
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Post by TriciaG » January 25th, 2019, 6:20 pm

What we could really use is more people walking newbies through their 1-minute test. The other day I looked, and there were a few days' worth of tests to be checked.

That, and we seem to be short on proof-listeners right now. :)
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plaidsicle
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Post by plaidsicle » January 25th, 2019, 6:54 pm

this is a pretty interesting idea, and could be nice and motivating, too. it creates another more clear and externally-visible way for volunteers to show off what they've accomplished (at least in quantitative terms). I'd be happy to contribute design ideas if there's enough interest in it.

I did have one thought/concern about this bit though...
Elizabby wrote:
January 25th, 2019, 5:18 pm
"...You are now licensed to record anywhere on the Librivox site!"
I always hear admins say that the 1-minute test isn't technically required. a certificate program/system with language like this would reinforce that it actually is.

is that something LV wants to embrace at this point? (just from my own experience, passing the 1-minute test does feel very required of all new readers, so it doesn't seem like it would practically change anything to just start admitting that fact.)
'whenever people agree with me I always feel I must be wrong.' -Oscar Wilde
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annise
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Post by annise » January 25th, 2019, 7:06 pm

We strongly recommend the test, but there will always be someone who is quite convinced they don't need to they know exactly what to do and very very rarely they do but also very very rarely is their first live recording successful.
"Sending" a certificate easily is the hurdle at the moment, the test threads are quite labour intensive and extremely important and I wouldn't want to add to the workload of those who help there.

Anne

TriciaG
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Post by TriciaG » January 25th, 2019, 7:55 pm

And they aren't allowed to record "anywhere". They can't jump into someone's solo. ;)

Personally, I don't care for the 1-min test certificate idea, but others may.
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moniaqua
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Post by moniaqua » January 26th, 2019, 2:16 am

TriciaG wrote:
January 25th, 2019, 6:20 pm
What we could really use is more people walking newbies through their 1-minute test. The other day I looked, and there were a few days' worth of tests to be checked.
We don't even seem to have enough people to welcome new readers at the moment. :(
I have half a look on the minute tests and am always happy when I see them answered as at the moment I really have trouble finding time to do them right, as it can be a real big lot of work. Thank you Tricia, I saw your name often and always thought "Wonderful, Tricia already did it!" :9:

Cori
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Post by Cori » January 26th, 2019, 7:07 am

I would be very cautious about implementing this for several reasons:

1. It's worth reading a little on intrinsic and extrinsic motivation. LibriVox is quite a challenging hobby to take up, and if people don't have strong intrinsic motivation (whatever that motive may be, there are several) then it's unlikely that people will stick with it. I'd hazard a guess, Beth, that the reason that VocaliD send certificates is because they think most people will find the process boring / hard, and so will need external 'reward'.

2. We're likely to incentivise some people rushing through a couple of recordings just to get to their 'nice number' certificate. Not so bad if it's Weekly Poetry, but sad if it's a book or story contribution.

3. Having a 'certificate of readiness to record' doesn't, to me, encourage people enough to revisit their test if they change their setup, or to consider ways they could improve if they want (again, that comes from an intrinsic motivation.)

4. I'm not clear that people have consented to receiving anything except essential LV communication by email when they sign up here.

5. The technical set-up to do so in an automated way is non-trivial. (Several years ago, we had a 'notify me when this book is released' feature, but it was too difficult to make sure that email database was secure and not abused/hackable. Although it sounds cool, the amount of work to ensure proper data protection doesn't seem worth it compared to other things we'd like to get sorted out.)

6. Therefore we're suggesting that this is done by volunteers, manually checking stats / tests, creating the certificate and PMing people. Yes, it's a bit like the 'thank a reader' work -- but if you think about that, each thank you message is different, and quite nice to read. I hope that the admins who send those PMs feel a bit like Santa bringing a little bit of joy into someone's day. I'm not sure I could be so enthusiastic about 1-min tests, and definitely not about 100 sections complete. I feel like that energy and time could be better used elsewhere (e.g. giving positive, constructive feedback on tests, building on the effort to engage newcomers in the Welcome forum, giving lovely feedback as a PL or post-release) -- all of which are encouraging activities, but feel like acknowledgement of time & effort, rather than hitting an arbitrary stat or threshold.

7. Referencing discussions elsewhere, would there be demand to produce certificates for 10 forum arguments defused, 20 plays edited, 30 covers created, 40 books catalogued, 50 newbies welcomed, 60 1-min tests checked, 70 covers uploaded, 80 books PLed, 90 spammers banned, 1000 forum posts made?


In summary, I'd like our wonderful community and our shared mission to be their own reward. And I say this as an avid number dork, who notices her round-number of posts, celebrated 100 hours released as tracked in a private spreadsheet, has timed her book releases for her LibriVersary, and so on. Other people love and share their reader page, blog or tweet about their activity, and so on. I think self-determined reward is better.




(ARGH, I've gone on a bit. This concludes my TED talk ... )
There's honestly no such thing as a stupid question -- but I'm afraid I can't rule out giving a stupid answer : : To Posterity and Beyond!

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Post by Kitty » January 26th, 2019, 7:55 am

Cori, this is a wonderfully constructed and constructive post :clap: Couldn't have said it better.

I may also add my personal two-cents worth. I know different people will react differently to such certificates, but I know with me personally, it would totally backfire. I can give an example of my DPL jobs in general and specifically in drama, which are very time consuming. Not complaining here, I love DPLing, just stating a fact to make my point here.

So I'm doing this because I love helping the readers to iron out all the tiny mistakes they may have missed so the end result is as great as possible and in drama bringing out the best of each voice actor. And my reward in all this is when the readers are happy about my notes and comments and when I notice how they come back and grow over time. Then I think, yes, the time was well spent, I did something good at the end of the day. I don't mind putting in the hours.

If on the contrary now I got a standard computer generated certificate, with the same basic text, only my name added in saying "thank you for DPLing 20 plays", this would trigger in me some cynical reaction, "oh yeah, I spent 5 hours this afternoon PLing this and they only clicked a button and think that makes it worthwhile". :lol: This certificate would not make me happy, while the interaction with the readers makes me happy and is all the reward I need.

As I said, this is personal, I am aware that other people may want to add certificates to their bedroom wall, fine with me. I'm just saying, there are probably also many people like me here on the forum who don't need this.

The best proof of this is that the numbers of our regular contributors are growing over the years, and we never ever handed out certificates.

Sonia

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Post by tovarisch » January 26th, 2019, 8:30 am

+2!

Thank you both.

I personally count each thank-you note and each favorable review on Archive as much more valuable "certificate" of my participation. I don't work with those in mind, mind... :wink:
tovarisch
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moniaqua
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Post by moniaqua » January 26th, 2019, 8:45 am

Kitty wrote:
January 26th, 2019, 7:55 am
This certificate would not make me happy, while the interaction with the readers makes me happy and is all the reward I need.
That's put the secret of LibriVox and Coris post in a nutshell :thumbs:

mightyfelix
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Post by mightyfelix » January 26th, 2019, 12:56 pm

Cori wrote:
January 26th, 2019, 7:07 am
10 forum arguments defused
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Not sure why that made me laugh so much, but it did!

ZamesCurran
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Post by ZamesCurran » February 13th, 2019, 3:48 pm

A couple of thoughts:

- I like the general idea of a "rewards" system for participating. If we compare this to the wildly successful site StackOverflow.com (which is also completely volunteer driven), one of the main things that drove participation there is their system of "reputation points" and badges (just is notably when you consider some of their competition was offering *money*). And this didn't even involve certificates, just a reputation number and a list of badges on your profile page. And the reputation points has some (non-monetary) value, as the ore you accumulate, the more administrative powers you have on the website.

- We should avoid the terms "licensed" and "certified" as they trigger specific legal requirements.
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ej400
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Post by ej400 » February 13th, 2019, 4:18 pm

TriciaG wrote:
January 25th, 2019, 6:20 pm
What we could really use is more people walking newbies through their 1-minute test. The other day I looked, and there were a few days' worth of tests to be checked.
That, and we seem to be short on proof-listeners right now. :)
moniaqua wrote:
January 26th, 2019, 2:16 am
We don't even seem to have enough people to welcome new readers at the moment. :(
I was thinking about reading and PLing less, and start welcoming and listening to 1 minute tests instead. After I get some of my other things done that is, but I have really considered doing this instead.

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