Human Nature and Conduct - Part 3, by John Dewey-philc

williamjones · Post by **williamjones** » September 12th, 2018, 4:47 pm

JorWat - THANK YOU!

Dewey is not a great writer.... Thinker, YES! but writer, NO

On one end of the Readability Scale there is Dewey and on the other end is Jean Jacques Rousseau.
Note: Dewey tries to provide clear OBSERVATIONS of HOW people and societies work not how they SHOULD work.

His use of the words, Habit, Impulse and Conscience is non-standard, but chosen so as to be close to what he's talking about.

He has one frequent unfortunate habit of not signaling the final item in a string of things with an "and".
E.g., he would write
"I like brown, yellow, pink ice cream"
when we would expect
"I like brown, yellow, AND pink ice cream."

williamjones · Post by **williamjones** » September 13th, 2018, 5:37 pm

Uploaded Sections 02 and 03 of HNAC Part 3

https://librivox.org/uploads/philchenevert/humannatureandconduct3_02_dewey_128kb.mp3 17:55
https://librivox.org/uploads/philchenevert/humannatureandconduct3_03_dewey_128kb.mp3 23:09

Will upload Section 04 tomorrow evening after another pass of proofing/editing

JorWat · Post by **JorWat** » September 14th, 2018, 3:09 pm

williamjones wrote: ↑September 12th, 2018, 9:13 am Uploaded HNAC Part 3 Section 01

https://librivox.org/uploads/philchenevert/humannatureandconduct3_01_dewey_128kb.mp3 20:40

Let the games begin!

Two notes:

11:47: 'no such conceptions of the seat, agent or vehicle will be coherent psychologically at the present time' should be 'no such conceptions of the seat, agent or vehicle will go psychologically at the present time'
17:29: I'm hearing 'su susain' rather than 'to sustain'

williamjones wrote: ↑September 13th, 2018, 5:37 pm Uploaded Sections 02 and 03 of HNAC Part 3

https://librivox.org/uploads/philchenevert/humannatureandconduct3_02_dewey_128kb.mp3 17:55
https://librivox.org/uploads/philchenevert/humannatureandconduct3_03_dewey_128kb.mp3 23:09

Will upload Section 04 tomorrow evening after another pass of proofing/editing

Both are PL OK.

williamjones · Post by **williamjones** » September 14th, 2018, 4:46 pm

JorWat wrote: ↑September 14th, 2018, 3:09 pm
williamjones wrote: ↑September 12th, 2018, 9:13 am Uploaded HNAC Part 3 Section 01

https://librivox.org/uploads/philchenevert/humannatureandconduct3_01_dewey_128kb.mp3 20:40

Let the games begin!
Two notes:

11:47: 'no such conceptions of the seat, agent or vehicle will be coherent psychologically at the present time' should be 'no such conceptions of the seat, agent or vehicle will go psychologically at the present time'
17:29: I'm hearing 'su susain' rather than 'to sustain'

williamjones wrote: ↑September 13th, 2018, 5:37 pm Uploaded Sections 02 and 03 of HNAC Part 3

https://librivox.org/uploads/philchenevert/humannatureandconduct3_02_dewey_128kb.mp3 17:55
https://librivox.org/uploads/philchenevert/humannatureandconduct3_03_dewey_128kb.mp3 23:09

Will upload Section 04 tomorrow evening after another pass of proofing/editing
Both are PL OK.

JorWat, Thank you very much for your comments on Section 1.
Substituting "be coherent" for "go" was a tough call to make. In the first decade of the 1900s this "go" construct might have been readily understood, but not nowadays, I think. It took me quite a while to find my paraphrase. I am content with it. BUT, you have much, much more experience in the LV world than I have. If you are confident that I should revert to the original "go", I will do so, of course. Thanks, again!

JorWat · Post by **JorWat** » September 15th, 2018, 2:28 am

I was under the impression that you're not supposed to deliberately change the words. Though I'm not sure where I saw that.

EDIT: Found it:

May I change the text?
Occasionally people ask if they can change the published text, for instance by omitting or substituting offensive words or ideas.

The answer is No. We present the text as it is written: no additions, omissions, or substitutions. If the text contains a word you just cannot say, consider choosing something else to record. (There is so much available to record! No need to cause yourself discomfort.) If you wish to make an "editorial comment" about the content of the text, you may do so in the written catalog summary, but you may not add it to the recording.

https://wiki.librivox.org/index.php?title=Recording_%26_Text_Policies

Post by **philchenevert** » September 15th, 2018, 6:45 am

Yup. What Jordan said is correct. We read 'em as we sees 'em. Dewey's writing is indeed dense and his usage sometimes less than clear which is why you deserve so much credit for taking the time and effort to understand and then record these. I applaud you.

msfry · Post by **msfry** » September 15th, 2018, 7:26 am

Antiquated words or expressions do pop up in PD literature quite often. I have been listening to Chaucer's Canterbury Tales and wishing someone would rewrite it in plain English. Alas, that wouldn't be PD nor authentic.

That said, there are times when the Gutenberg text is obviously wrong, like the optical character generator gets it wrong, or a word or phrase is said twice, and sometimes the original printer of old books sets up the type wrong and your listeners don't have the benefit of seeing it and making the correction in their head. I've been encouraged to use my best judgment, and also to advise Gutenberg of any mistakes noticed. And sometimes in a chapter, I have put the author of a quoted poem or article ahead of the poem or article, when in the text the author's name isn't appended until the end. I am not adding meaning, just providing clarity of whose voice is being quoted where the cues of indentation or font style, and the ability to flip back and forth between pages, isn't available to a listener.

It's a fine line. Hope this helps.

williamjones · Post by **williamjones** » September 15th, 2018, 9:16 am

This book was compiled from a series lectures that Dewey gave:
From the book's Preface:

In the spring of 1918 I was invited by Leland Stanford Junior University
to give a series of three lectures upon the West Memorial Foundation.
One of the topics included within the scope of the Foundation is Human
Conduct and Destiny. This volume is the result, as, according to the
terms of the Foundation, the lectures are to be published.

So, there is a likelihood that his speaking NOTES differ, inadvertently, from the book's text due to second thoughts, piecing together and editing.

His sometimes opaque text was probably much more accessible when accompanied with his vocal clues and body language.
I found two short video clips of his speaking:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MlHSgC_SnU
https://youtu.be/SGjSMqwlP3E?t=25

williamjones · Post by **williamjones** » September 16th, 2018, 12:51 pm

Uploaded Human Nature and Conduct, Part 3 sections:

Section 01
https://librivox.org/uploads/philchenevert/humannatureandconduct3_01_dewey_128kb.mp3 20:40
With two noted corrections made.

Section 04
https://librivox.org/uploads/philchenevert/humannatureandconduct3_04_dewey_128kb.mp3 22:47

JorWat · Post by **JorWat** » September 17th, 2018, 12:47 pm

williamjones wrote: ↑September 16th, 2018, 12:51 pm Uploaded Human Nature and Conduct, Part 3 sections:

Section 01
https://librivox.org/uploads/philchenevert/humannatureandconduct3_01_dewey_128kb.mp3 20:40
With two noted corrections made.

Section 04
https://librivox.org/uploads/philchenevert/humannatureandconduct3_04_dewey_128kb.mp3 22:47

Both are PL OK

williamjones · Post by **williamjones** » September 17th, 2018, 3:11 pm

Uploaded probably the thorniest of sections in HNAC Part 3: SECTION V: THE UNIQUENESS OF GOOD

https://librivox.org/uploads/philchenevert/humannatureandconduct3_05_dewey_128kb.mp3 28:23

Today I realized something: John Dewey was alive and kicking during the American Civil War, the War Between the States.

Civil War: 1861 - 1865
John Dewey: 1859 - 1952

That guy in the short video whose link I posted ....
He saw Yankee and Rebel soldiers riding around and fighting with flintlock rifles.
He saw the Klu Klux Klan and lynchings.

Imagine that!!!!

JorWat · Post by **JorWat** » September 19th, 2018, 1:17 pm

williamjones wrote: ↑September 17th, 2018, 3:11 pm Uploaded probably the thorniest of sections in HNAC Part 3: SECTION V: THE UNIQUENESS OF GOOD

https://librivox.org/uploads/philchenevert/humannatureandconduct3_05_dewey_128kb.mp3 28:23

Today I realized something: John Dewey was alive and kicking during the American Civil War, the War Between the States.

Civil War: 1861 - 1865
John Dewey: 1859 - 1952

That guy in the short video whose link I posted ....
He saw Yankee and Rebel soldiers riding around and fighting with flintlock rifles.
He saw the Klu Klux Klan and lynchings.

Imagine that!!!!

PL OK!

williamjones · Post by **williamjones** » September 19th, 2018, 3:21 pm

Uploaded HNAC PART 3, Section VI The Nature of Aims

https://librivox.org/uploads/philchenevert/humannatureandconduct3_06_dewey_128kb.mp3 32:36

Dewey borrows substantially from Kant's view of Means and Ends.
The most prominent END in sight, is only a MEANS of getting to the NEXT END/step in Life's process.
If a long-term goal is depicted as a Finite State Machine (or Markov Chain) then, for Dewey, each Terminal State is Not terminal, but an intermediate state in an encompassing, larger state machine.

Means#1 leads to End#1,
but End#1, having been achieved,
becomes Means#2 leading to End#2 . . .
Means#X leads to End#X,
which becomes Means#X+1 leading to END#X+1
ad infinitem.

After this section, only 3 sections are remaining.
Will definitely finish before the end of next week.

Post by **philchenevert** » September 19th, 2018, 6:26 pm

Means#1 leads to End#1,
but End#1, having been achieved,
becomes Means#2 leading to End#2 . . .
Means#X leads to End#X,
which becomes Means#X+1 leading to END#X+1
ad infinitem

Gee. I was just thinking this the other day in the shower. Very interesting. very interesting!

msfry · Post by **msfry** » September 19th, 2018, 8:32 pm

philchenevert wrote: ↑September 19th, 2018, 6:26 pm
Means#1 leads to End#1,
but End#1, having been achieved,
becomes Means#2 leading to End#2 . . .
Means#X leads to End#X,
which becomes Means#X+1 leading to END#X+1
ad infinitem
Gee. I was just thinking this the other day in the shower. Very interesting. very interesting!

Ad infinitem, indeed! And elementary, my dear Watson!