Audioliterature and Audible

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Ealswythe
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Post by Ealswythe » February 5th, 2018, 8:26 pm

annise wrote:
February 5th, 2018, 6:40 pm
You are right - but it is also my understanding that you can not claim copyright on something you do not own it.
People are entitled to state their views whether you consider them right or wrong around here :D

Anne
You are absolutely right, Anne. Everyone has a right to state their views. As an author on Amazon, and narrator on ACX, I know for a fact that anyone can transcribe a PD book and offer it for sale on Amazon Kindle. They cannot copyright it, because it is not officially their own. But they do have to state that is is PD. After that, they can narrate it, and offer it as an audiobook, for sale on Audible, through ACX, either by recording it themselves, or having an ACX narrator take on the project of recording it, either for pay, or royalty share. But if someone is taking Librivox recordings and altering the voice, and removing the LV disclaimer, and changing the name, and not collaborating with the original LV narrator, they are basically stealing the work of that narrator, and that should not be allowed. This issue has nothing to do with whether something is PD or not.
Le silence va plus vite à reculons.

https://librivox.org/reader/11772

annise
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Post by annise » February 5th, 2018, 10:00 pm

I'm no international copyright lawyer - and I'm not even American , even if my great grandfather was :D but it was my understanding that the point of the disclaimer on every file was that the reader released his "performance" into the PD, and I doubt the laws have gor around to copyrighting voices yet - except probably Mickey Mouse . I wonder if Disney would own that or the actor :hmm:

Anne

moniaqua
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Post by moniaqua » February 6th, 2018, 1:44 am

Ealswythe wrote:
February 5th, 2018, 8:26 pm
But if someone is taking Librivox recordings and altering the voice, and removing the LV disclaimer, and changing the name, and not collaborating with the original LV narrator, they are basically stealing the work of that narrator, and that should not be allowed. This issue has nothing to do with whether something is PD or not.
Actually, without being a lawyer either, I think, it has, like annise. On every recording for LibriVox I say "this recording is in the public domain". So, legally, I guess changing voice is like a (bad) copy of the book, only that it is not on paper but on a recording.

On a moral point of view I am totally with you. It is kind of like stealing, but I should be aware that his can happen when I release my works in PD. For me the ones who are harmed are less the readers; they know that they released their recordings. They might not have been aware of the consequences but that is not the problem of the publishers. The ones who are victims in my view are the ones who don't know that LibriVox exist and pay for something they could get free. So my way would be to make LibriVox known ;)

tovarisch
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Post by tovarisch » February 6th, 2018, 5:45 am

Ealswythe wrote:
February 5th, 2018, 8:19 pm
tovarisch wrote:
February 5th, 2018, 6:20 pm
Ealswythe wrote:
February 5th, 2018, 6:00 pm
This is obviously pirated, and should be illegal.
With all due respect, if it's public domain, it's not piracy to do anything one wants with it. It's not piracy to sunbathe or to breathe the air. It just isn't, please get over it.

That said, I don't know about ACX and their requirements as to who should be the narrator, and whether fake names on pitch-altered recordings are violations of ACX user agreement. That's where those "publishers" might be had, but not on "piracy" claims.
When I said it’s pirated, I was referring to the fact that some people on the forum have claimed that “publishers” on ACX are taking already recorded narrations of other narrators on LV, and submitting them under a fake name, with altered voices. That is illegal, and I think it does violate the rules of ACX, although they don’t specifically address that issue, in their official rules.
Of course, if it is PD, anyone can transcribe it themselves, publish it on Amazon, then record it themselves, and submit it to ACX for audiobook publication. That is not violating anything.
(emphasis mine -- t)

"Illegal" is a strong word, and it has a very specific meaning. Can you please quote the law which is broken? Perhaps there is confusion between "illegal" and "immoral"...

ACX is a commercial entity. They set the rules for conduct as far as their services are concerned, and unless your rights are violated (if so, which?), we (as a third party) have really no standing. We can point out violations to them, yet it's their choice whether to do anything about it or ignore it (which is what seems they are doing). Of course, I am not a lawyer and this all is just my opinion. I've not seen any argument to the contrary, however. Saying "illegal" about something multiple times does not really make it such.

Pirates take what belongs to other [specific] people without permission thus denying the benefit to the original owners. Whatever is in Public Domain belongs as much to those "publishers" as it does to anybody else. If I am incorrect in this, could you please show me where I am wrong? It may seem to you that I'm advocating so called "piracy" in these cases. I am not. I am simply trying to clarify where the repeated use of the term "illegal" comes from. Thank you.
tovarisch
  • reality prompts me to scale down my reading, sorry to say
    to PLers: do correct my pronunciation please

Monaxi
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Post by Monaxi » February 6th, 2018, 7:01 am

moniaqua wrote:
February 6th, 2018, 1:44 am

Actually, without being a lawyer either, I think, it has, like annise. On every recording for LibriVox I say "this recording is in the public domain". So, legally, I guess changing voice is like a (bad) copy of the book, only that it is not on paper but on a recording.

On a moral point of view I am totally with you. It is kind of like stealing, but I should be aware that his can happen when I release my works in PD. For me the ones who are harmed are less the readers; they know that they released their recordings. They might not have been aware of the consequences but that is not the problem of the publishers. The ones who are victims in my view are the ones who don't know that LibriVox exist and pay for something they could get free. So my way would be to make LibriVox known ;)
This is how it seems to me as well. All I can imagine is trying to let folks know how to get our recordings for free and legitimately, and that they're being cheated if they are paying elsewhere.
Peace be with you,
Sister

Ealswythe
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Post by Ealswythe » February 6th, 2018, 7:54 am

moniaqua wrote:
February 6th, 2018, 1:44 am
Ealswythe wrote:
February 5th, 2018, 8:26 pm
But if someone is taking Librivox recordings and altering the voice, and removing the LV disclaimer, and changing the name, and not collaborating with the original LV narrator, they are basically stealing the work of that narrator, and that should not be allowed. This issue has nothing to do with whether something is PD or not.
Actually, without being a lawyer either, I think, it has, like annise. On every recording for LibriVox I say "this recording is in the public domain". So, legally, I guess changing voice is like a (bad) copy of the book, only that it is not on paper but on a recording.

On a moral point of view I am totally with you. It is kind of like stealing, but I should be aware that his can happen when I release my works in PD. For me the ones who are harmed are less the readers; they know that they released their recordings. They might not have been aware of the consequences but that is not the problem of the publishers. The ones who are victims in my view are the ones who don't know that LibriVox exist and pay for something they could get free. So my way would be to make LibriVox known ;)
Lol. As for Disney, here’s a true story for you. When my husband was in kindergarten, his teacher asked the kids to all draw their favorite Disney character on the board. Some school staff member walked by and saw what they were doing. He happened to be the brother of a lawyer for Disney. The next day, the lawyer showed up in the classroom, and claimed that he was going to sue the teacher and all the kids for drawing pictures that belonged to Disney. Of course, the court threw it out. But it was a scary situation for the kids.
Le silence va plus vite à reculons.

https://librivox.org/reader/11772

moniaqua
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Post by moniaqua » February 6th, 2018, 8:16 am

Ealswythe wrote:
February 6th, 2018, 7:54 am
Lol.
Can you please explain me, why my post makes you laugh?

As for the Disney story - strange, that a man who made his dreams come true has such strict and unfriendly lawyers.

Ealswythe
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Post by Ealswythe » February 6th, 2018, 10:14 am

moniaqua wrote:
February 6th, 2018, 8:16 am
Ealswythe wrote:
February 6th, 2018, 7:54 am
Lol.
Can you please explain me, why my post makes you laugh?

As for the Disney story - strange, that a man who made his dreams come true has such strict and unfriendly lawyers.
I'm sorry if you misunderstood. Your post did not make me laugh. I was laughing at my own post.
Le silence va plus vite à reculons.

https://librivox.org/reader/11772

moniaqua
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Post by moniaqua » February 6th, 2018, 10:21 am

Ealswythe wrote:
February 6th, 2018, 10:14 am
Your post did not make me laugh. I was laughing at my own post.
I don't understand that either but well, I do not need to understand all :)

MaryAnnSpiegel
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Post by MaryAnnSpiegel » February 6th, 2018, 12:12 pm

moniaqua wrote:
February 6th, 2018, 8:16 am
As for the Disney story - strange, that a man who made his dreams come true has such strict and unfriendly lawyers.
A little off point for this thread, but I can't resist a comment. I always found it, what's the word I want here . . . . odd? strange? maybe hypocritical? . . . . that the company which relies so heavily on public domain stories as base material for their movies continues to fight to extend US copyright so that nothing else can ever enter into the public domain.
MaryAnn

Ealswythe
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Post by Ealswythe » February 6th, 2018, 12:55 pm

It's American big business, MaryAnn. The more they make, the more they want. Yes, they have taken stories from the Public Domain, and made it their own. They create new Disney characters, and then have a battery of lawyers to fight a bunch of little kids who are just drawing the characters on a board.
Le silence va plus vite à reculons.

https://librivox.org/reader/11772

annise
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Post by annise » February 6th, 2018, 2:24 pm

Small business too - and not confined to the USA. I tell anyone who mentions Audible to me that they should check that they can't get the book for free before paying for it but we are doing the right thing , there's not much point in worrying too much about the ungodly.

Anne

Monaxi
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Post by Monaxi » February 7th, 2018, 2:44 pm

I just read this: https://www.wsj.com/articles/readers-listen-up-amazon-wants-to-extend-its-dominance-in-audiobooks-1517832000

and wondered if anyone would like to share this thread or its topic with the author. His email is at the end of the article.
Peace be with you,
Sister

annise
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Post by annise » March 6th, 2018, 10:50 pm

I haven't checked but I received an email from a listener as follows -
FYI… they (Audible) might have begun to care….. I had just planned to buy one of the books, review it with a scathing “Don’t support this so-called publisher” review and return the book for my credit back since I have 1000 followers (not much but it’s something anyway), and overnight, ALL of the Paperless (publisher) titles stolen from you guys are “Not available on Audible.com” when they were just last night. I had a public Facebook interaction about this with narrator Andi Arnt on her page in a piracy thread. It took some doing to convey that the PD aspect is only part of it, but she understood and totally agreed in the end. Maybe she helped. Karma sometimes takes a little time. :)
Anne

Availle
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Post by Availle » March 6th, 2018, 11:24 pm

:clap: :clap:
Cheers,
Ava.

--
AvailleAudio.com

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