[FULL-TRIO] Selected Poems from Michelangelo Buonarroti - tg

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KevinS
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Post by KevinS » August 5th, 2020, 1:53 pm

Kazbek wrote:
I've assumed that I would be doing all the English parts, but I don't think we ever discussed this. If I am wrong, please let me know. The MW can be changed easily to reflect changes in parts. The open spaces are, of course, for the Italian.
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Kazbek
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Post by Kazbek » August 5th, 2020, 2:11 pm

TriciaG wrote:
August 5th, 2020, 12:45 pm
Does Eysiss have a forum presence yet? I don't see such a name on the DPL list (yet).
Yes, she also has a reader page. Probably just a glitch.

Michael

Kazbek
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Post by Kazbek » August 5th, 2020, 2:15 pm

KevinS wrote:
August 5th, 2020, 1:53 pm

I've assumed that I would be doing all the English parts, but I don't think we ever discussed this. If I am wrong, please let me know. The MW can be changed easily to reflect changes in parts. The open spaces are, of course, for the Italian.
I think you did mention it, and I have no objection. It will provide for some predictability amidst the frequent changes of voices.

For the section structure, most of the poems are straightforward, but there are a couple of tricky cases:

1) Epigram I consists a quatrain by Giovanni Strozzi and a response by Michelangelo, with translations by two different authors. Should these be in the same section, in alternating quatrains Italian-English-Italian-English?
2) Epigrams IV & V are 2 and 3 lines long, respectively. Should these be in separate sections?
3) Should the epitaphs be in separate sections, or in one section with alternating Italian/English quatrains? If they're in separate sections, will the full title preceding the text be read only at the start of the first one?

Michael

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Post by KevinS » August 5th, 2020, 2:19 pm

Kazbek wrote:
August 5th, 2020, 2:15 pm
KevinS wrote:
August 5th, 2020, 1:53 pm

I've assumed that I would be doing all the English parts, but I don't think we ever discussed this. If I am wrong, please let me know. The MW can be changed easily to reflect changes in parts. The open spaces are, of course, for the Italian.
I think you did mention it, and I have no objection. It will provide for some predictability amidst the frequent changes of voices.

For the section structure, most of the poems are straightforward, but there are a couple of tricky cases:

1) Epigram I consists a quatrain by Giovanni Strozzi and a response by Michelangelo, with translations by two different authors. Should these be in the same section, in alternating quatrains Italian-English-Italian-English?
2) Epigrams IV & V are 2 and 3 lines long, respectively. Should these be in separate sections?
3) Should the epitaphs be in separate sections, or in one section with alternating Italian/English quatrains? If they're in separate sections, will the title be read only at the start of the first one?

Michael
I will have to think about points 2 and 3, but I assumed we would do the 'dialogue' of Strozzi and Michelangelo as Italian-Italian-English-English (Italian then English.)
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Kazbek
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Post by Kazbek » August 5th, 2020, 2:22 pm

KevinS wrote:
August 5th, 2020, 2:19 pm
I will have to think about points 2 and 3, but I assumed we would do the 'dialogue' of Strozzi and Michelangelo as Italian-Italian-English-English (Italian then English.)
Sure, that'll work.

Michael

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Post by Kazbek » August 5th, 2020, 2:38 pm

Next question: what to put in the Title column. There are 4 elements that could potentially go there:

1) Genre+number
2) Dedication, occasionally listed in the TOC in English.
3) First line in Italian
4) First line in English

Which ones should we include in MW, to help the listeners orient themselves in the completed project?

Also, I'm not sure if we should fill out the final titles now, or wait until the readings have been assembled. I haven't BC'd (or participated in) a DR project before.

Michael

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Post by KevinS » August 5th, 2020, 3:42 pm

Kazbek wrote:
August 5th, 2020, 2:38 pm
Next question: what to put in the Title column. There are 4 elements that could potentially go there:

1) Genre+number
2) Dedication, occasionally listed in the TOC in English.
3) First line in Italian
4) First line in English

Which ones should we include in MW, to help the listeners orient themselves in the completed project?

Also, I'm not sure if we should fill out the final titles now, or wait until the readings have been assembled. I haven't BC'd (or participated in) a DR project before.

Michael
I wouldn't mind genre and number, provided that Michelangelo's verse has been definitively 'numbered.' I assume the madrigals and sonnets have been since Guasci's work.

The English section boxes will only be placeholders, of course, as they will disappear once the editing is completed.
Last edited by KevinS on August 5th, 2020, 5:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Kazbek
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Post by Kazbek » August 5th, 2020, 4:38 pm

KevinS wrote:
August 5th, 2020, 3:42 pm

I wouldn't mind genre and number, provided that Michelangelo's verse has been definitively 'numbered.' I assume the madrigals and sonnets have been since Guasci's work.

The English section boxes will only be placeholder's, of course, as they will disappear once the editing is completed.
Unfortunately, there's no definitive numbering of Michelangelo's poems. Guasti was the authoritative Italian edition at the time, and Cheney follows its classification and numbering, but modern edition haven't uniformly adopted it. The Saslow edition I just bought numbers everything chronologically, and includes various indices at the end to help navigation.

I don't think we have a really good option here, because the poems have no titles that could be regarded as standard. In an Italian project, one could use the first line as part of an Italian intro, but this wouldn't work with an English intro. Using Guasti's and Cheney's titles in the intro, supplemented by Italian and English first lines in the MW seemed like the least bad option to me. We could also use "Section N of Selected Poems from Michelangelo Buonarroti" in the intro.

By the way, one unexpected thing I noticed when I checked Guasti's edition is that the poems are accompanied by prose paraphrases. I was somewhat reassured to find out that I'm not the only one who has difficulty understanding them sometimes.

https://archive.org/details/bub_gb_S6-0x834F-EC/page/n3/mode/2up

Michael

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Post by KevinS » August 5th, 2020, 5:13 pm

Kazbek wrote:
August 5th, 2020, 4:38 pm
KevinS wrote:
August 5th, 2020, 3:42 pm

I wouldn't mind genre and number, provided that Michelangelo's verse has been definitively 'numbered.' I assume the madrigals and sonnets have been since Guasci's work.

The English section boxes will only be placeholder's, of course, as they will disappear once the editing is completed.
Unfortunately, there's no definitive numbering of Michelangelo's poems. Guasti was the authoritative Italian edition at the time, and Cheney follows its classification and numbering, but modern edition haven't uniformly adopted it. The Saslow edition I just bought numbers everything chronologically, and includes various indices at the end to help navigation.

I don't think we have a really good option here, because the poems have no titles that could be regarded as standard. In an Italian project, one could use the first line as part of an Italian intro, but this wouldn't work with an English intro. Using Guasti's and Cheney's titles in the intro, supplemented by Italian and English first lines in the MW seemed like the least bad option to me. We could also use "Section N of Selected Poems from Michelangelo Buonarroti" in the intro.

By the way, one unexpected thing I noticed when I checked Guasti's edition is that the poems are accompanied by prose paraphrases. I was somewhat reassured to find out that I'm not the only one who has difficulty understanding them sometimes.

https://archive.org/details/bub_gb_S6-0x834F-EC/page/n3/mode/2up

Michael
Why not just the Italian first line? I assumed we would place the Italian first in each section.
Drop and roll!

Kazbek
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Post by Kazbek » August 5th, 2020, 5:29 pm

KevinS wrote:
August 5th, 2020, 5:13 pm
Why not just the Italian first line? I assumed we would place the Italian first in each section.
Ok, that would work. It will also prepare the listener for the voice that's going to read the original poem. Can we use "di" instead of "by"? Otherwise, it feels like I have to rearrange my whole head twice within the space of a second.

Would we also have just the Italian first lines as chapter titles in the catalog?

Michael

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Post by KevinS » August 5th, 2020, 5:33 pm

Kazbek wrote:
August 5th, 2020, 5:29 pm
KevinS wrote:
August 5th, 2020, 5:13 pm
Why not just the Italian first line? I assumed we would place the Italian first in each section.
Ok, that would work. It will also prepare the listener for the voice that's going to read the original poem. Can we use "di" instead of "by"? Otherwise, it feels like I have to rearrange my whole head twice within the space of a second.

Would we also have just the Italian first lines as chapter titles in the catalog?

Michael
I think 'di' will be fine. And I don't see why the Italian only would be a problem. Listeners will know what they are getting with this project. (Which means I should consider adding a bit to the summary perhaps.)
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Kazbek
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Post by Kazbek » August 5th, 2020, 5:46 pm

I would suggest also adding a short TOC to the summary: which sections are madrigals, etc.

The first line would work for most of the book, but not for the epigrams and epitaphs. We need to come up with a special intro format for those. Should they be one section each, called "Epigrammi" and "Epitaffi"?

Michael

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Post by KevinS » August 5th, 2020, 5:54 pm

Preface (Section 001)

https://librivox.org/uploads/triciag/selectedpoems_001_buonarroti_128kb.mp3 (4:02)

Our Italian friends will hate how I flatten (mangle) the pronunciation of Michelangelo, but it is what most/many English speakers expect. In fact, I feel a bit of a pedant when I attempt to pronounce the name as an Italian would do.

As for the pacing of this Preface, I could pick it up a bit if you think it best.
Last edited by KevinS on August 5th, 2020, 5:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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KevinS
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Post by KevinS » August 5th, 2020, 5:55 pm

Kazbek wrote:
August 5th, 2020, 5:46 pm
Should they be one section each, called "Epigrammi" and "Epitaffi"?
Michael
I would say yes.
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Post by TriciaG » August 5th, 2020, 6:10 pm

Moving this to Readers Found. You can iron out any other wrinkles there. :)
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