COMPLETE Rollo's Wild Oat by Clare Kummer - thw

[Elizabby]

I'd like to try Mrs Park-Gales please.

[Kitty]

I see the playwright died in 1958...so I (being in Europe) can only partake if this ominous rule of shorter term applies. If yes, then I could probably do Aunt Lane If not, I'll sit this one out, no worries.

Sonia

[alanmapstone]

I would like to read Skittering, but with the same proviso as Sonia about rule of shorter term, which I have never understood.

[Kitty]

I would like to read Skittering, but with the same proviso as Sonia about rule of shorter term, which I have never understood.

if I understood it correctly, Europe is only PD when the author is dead for 70 years in case it is a EUROPEAN author. So Bernard Shaw would not be possible for us, even if his texts are PD in America.

But, the rule of shorter terms says: if the author is of a nationality other than European, we can stick to the PD rules of the country they are from, so in this case, the author is American, and in America, she is already PD despite not being dead for 70 years yet, so it's ok for us as well.

That's how I understood it, at least.

Sonia

[Availle]

Yes and no

From wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_of_the_shorter_term

Yes:

The rule of the shorter term, also called the comparison of terms, is a provision in international copyright treaties. The provision allows that signatory countries can limit the duration of copyright they grant to foreign works under national treatment, to at most the copyright term granted in the country of origin of the work.

and no:

Germany [...] does not apply the comparison of terms to U.S. works. In a case decided on October 7, 2003 by the Oberlandesgericht of Hesse in Frankfurt am Main, the court ruled that a U.S. work that had fallen in the public domain in the U.S. was still copyrighted in Germany. The court considered the rule of the shorter term inapplicable because of the bilateral copyright treaty between Germany and the United States, which had become effective on January 15, 1892 and which was still in effect. That treaty did not contain a rule of the shorter term, but just stated that works of either country were copyrighted in the other country by the other country's laws.

And then there's this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_of_the_shorter_term#Worldwide_situation

That's why nobody likes copyrights - it's sooo complicated...

[Kitty]

Germany [...] does not apply the comparison of terms to U.S. works. In a case decided on October 7, 2003 by the Oberlandesgericht of Hesse in Frankfurt am Main, the court ruled that a U.S. work that had fallen in the public domain in the U.S. was still copyrighted in Germany.

yes but I took this to mean exactly what it says "concerning the TEXT", and in this case the text is published 1922, so it would be PD in Germany. What I meant was the AUTHOR, and what you quoted here does not imply the author, I think. At least it doesn't mention the author, it only mentions the WORK. Or am I being nit-picky ? But legal texts are usually to be taken literally, as far as I know.

Well, so you say to be on the safe-side I should not participate in here, I guess. Not a problem for me, as there are plenty of other things I have to do. Chuck: Aunt Lane is up for grabs again.

Sonia

[ChuckW]

Eep! So much happened while I was away!

Ooh, I'd love to read for Goldie, please!

May I have Hewston?

Ah, since I are one (old grandfather) I think Horatio Webster would be a great little part to have.....

I'd like to try Mrs Park-Gales please.

Thank you all so very much! I'd love to have all of you.

Updating the MW right now. Looking forward to hearing your takes on these characters.

[Availle]

Sonia, you cannot separate the work from its author.
No book, text, photograph, movie, chocolate pudding... just poofs itself into existence without a (human) author figure of some kind.

And German copyright doesn't deal with dates of publication, it is irrelevant. German copyright only deals with author's death - and she's simply not dead long enough to be PD in Germany. And that the rule of shorter term does not apply in Germany means that even though this particular text is PD in the US, it is still not PD in Germany.

The other European countries seem to be fine with the rule of shorter term; it's just that Germany has an extra treaty with the US from way, way before the EU was even a basic idea anywhere.

Sorry to clutter up your thread Chuck...

[ChuckW]

I would like to read Skittering, but with the same proviso as Sonia about rule of shorter term, which I have never understood.

Germany [...] does not apply the comparison of terms to U.S. works. In a case decided on October 7, 2003 by the Oberlandesgericht of Hesse in Frankfurt am Main, the court ruled that a U.S. work that had fallen in the public domain in the U.S. was still copyrighted in Germany.

yes but I took this to mean exactly what it says "concerning the TEXT", and in this case the text is published 1922, so it would be PD in Germany. What I meant was the AUTHOR, and what you quoted here does not imply the author, I think. At least it doesn't mention the author, it only mentions the WORK. Or am I being nit-picky ? But legal texts are usually to be taken literally, as far as I know.

Well, so you say to be on the safe-side I should not participate in here, I guess. Not a problem for me, as there are plenty of other things I have to do. Chuck: Aunt Lane is up for grabs again.

Sonia

To be honest, the author's date of death was the one great thing keeping me from this project... along with a bunch of other stuff (From Morn to Midnight, Seventh Heaven, Lilliom). I've become a little hyperconscious about European copyright law and how much some of our volunteers want to err on the side of caution when it comes to texts written by authors who lived a long, healthy life (curse your longevity!).

So I'm happy to let all non-US volunteers make their own determinations about whether they think the Rule of the Shorter Term applies to any particular text. I'm obviously happy to have both of you, but understand if you're a little uneasy after reading Availle's information about the Rule of the Shorter Term and how it might apply to you.

Thanks for the interest, Sonia. I'm sure I'll launch something else soon.

What about you, Alan?

[Kitty]

I'm obviously happy to have both of you, but understand if you're a little uneasy after reading Availle's information about the Rule of the Shorter Term and how it might apply to you.

Thanks for the interest, Sonia. I'm sure I'll launch something else soon.

What about you, Alan?

well, since neither Alan nor me live in Germany, I guess we would be safe...but still, since it is a blurry area, I think I sit this one out. I may re-think if you are really in need of someone to help out finish, but for the moment I let others claim.

Sonia

[ChuckW]

I'm obviously happy to have both of you, but understand if you're a little uneasy after reading Availle's information about the Rule of the Shorter Term and how it might apply to you.

Thanks for the interest, Sonia. I'm sure I'll launch something else soon.

What about you, Alan?

well, since neither Alan nor me live in Germany, I guess we would be safe...but still, since it is a blurry area, I think I sit this one out. I may re-think if you are really in need of someone to help out finish, but for the moment I let others claim.

Sonia

No worries, Sonia. I understand completely. Like I said... I'm actively trying to only launch things that EVERYONE can contribute to, so this project is something of an anomaly. This is, honestly, why I back off of doing George Bernard Shaw's Back to Methuselah: it's wordy, insanely long, and only about half of our volunteers could record for it. That's why I'm waiting to launch that one in 2020, on the 70th anniversary of GBS's death.

[alanmapstone]

Hi Chuck

As I am not in Germany and have recorded roles before under rule of shorter term, i.e. the Lulu plays, I will take the role if you are OK to assign it to me.

[ChuckW]

Hi Chuck

As I am not in Germany and have recorded roles before under rule of shorter term, i.e. the Lulu plays, I will take the role if you are OK to assign it to me.

That would be great, Alan. Thanks!

(And now you've reminded me -- I need to check if there are any other Frank Wedekind plays we can record.)

[benderca]

May I play Aunt Lane please?
(unless Sonia wants to take it, then I'd do Lydia).

[ChuckW]

May I play Aunt Lane please?
(unless Sonia wants to take it, then I'd do Lydia).

Sonia has passed on Aunt Lane, so the role is all yours. Thank you so much!