Bandwagons and virtue signalling

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DavidYoung
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Post by DavidYoung »

The term 'virtue signalling' was practically non-existent in the last century, while the term 'jumping on the bandwagon' was in fairly common use.

When you hear these two phrases, what do you see as the relationship between them? Are they synonyms from your perspective or do you see differences in meaning?
JoannaHoyt
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Post by JoannaHoyt »

Interesting. I would have thought of "jumping on the bandwagon" as getting swept up in a group enthusiasm and "virtue signaling" as attempting to demonstrate one's own righteousness with more focus on the demonstration than on the actual righteousness... the two could be combined but could also occur separately, I think. "Virtue signaling" strikes me as less focused on belonging-- I would think signals could be sent either to those perceived as similarly virtuous or to those perceived as vicious--more self-directed, and more premeditated that bandwagon-jumping.

I'd also had the impression that "virtue signaling" was a term used specifically by conservatives against liberals, while "bandwagon" was nonpartisan (or, rather, omnipartisan), but my family tells me that in fact "virtue signaling" is in more general usage. (I haven't used the term myself but it has rather often been used on me, while I don't recall being accused of bandwagon-jumping. Whether that has to do with the difference in connotation or the times is more than I can say.)

...More concisely: I imagine the underlying vice of jumping on the bandwagon being mindless conformity/partisanship, and the underlying vice of virtue signaling being hypocrisy. But I'd be interested in hearing the meaning understood by someone who actually uses the term.
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KevinS
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Post by KevinS »

I have no idea what 'virtue signaling' is.

As for 'jumping on the bandwagon,' I think the expression means something like 'being carried away' with something. The decision is not entirely logical, but emotional. There is a good deal of 'group think' involved, 'peer pressure.'

Then again, one could be cynical and say that someone jumping on the bandwagon does so for personal gain or for something as simple as wanting to be 'right.' 'Right' being, unfortunately, what the crowd believes and not necessarily the individual. Then again, people can jump on the bandwagon for fear of standing apart from the crowd or having a genuine fear of being mocked or even punished for not holding to the public 'creed.'

I might add that I have a suspicion that the term, in real usage, is 'jumped on the bandwagon.' It may be that people use it to describe those who jumped in with the crowd and, after the events and fact, the group was proven wrong.
annise
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Post by annise »

Well, where I come from, jumping on the bandwagon is used to describe someone who waits to see what others are doing before hopping aboard and if the other term means what I think it means I'm not sure it is a suitable topic for LV.

Anne
KevinS
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Post by KevinS »

annise wrote: April 25th, 2021, 7:37 pm Well, where I come from, jumping on the bandwagon is used to describe someone who waits to see what others are doing before hopping aboard and if the other term means what I think it means I'm not sure it is a suitable topic for LV.

Anne
That's interesting. I always assumed the first expression came from, and was limited to, the United States.

EDIT: Here's more! I assume it's true, but who knows? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Rice
annise
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Post by annise »

Interesting -
according to Google (?Aus) used in reference to an activity, cause, etc. that is currently fashionable or popular and attracting increasing support.
"the environmental bandwagon is feeling mighty crowded"

But I'd always assumed a bandwagon was a flat wagon with no sides but the image was of an ornate high vehicle with the band on the roof. So it would be hard to jump on :D

Anne
TriciaG
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Post by TriciaG »

I pretty much agree with Joanna.

To me, Jumping on the Bandwagon is joining a cause, supporting a sports team, etc. that one sees others joining. It's emotional enthusiasm, and it's personal ("I am joining this cause").

Virtue Signalling, on the other hand, is telling others you've joined a cause with the intent of being disdainful of those who don't agree. It's more outward focused. ("I have joined this cause, and you're a bad person if you don't also.") That may be a bit strong, though; it may just be someone "wearing their colours on their sleeve" with less intent to look down on others. :hmm:

"Falling off the wagon" was originally a term for those who had joined the temperance cause, pledging not to drink anymore, and who backslid. I think it's a similar thing; they jumped on the bandwagon of abstinence, perhaps in a wave of enthusiasm and social pressure, then went back to their old drinking ways.

Was the temperance bandwagon also virtue signalling? Hmm, maybe. I think Virtue Signalling is a derogatory term, with that accusation of being better than those around you who don't agree with you. So people could have accused folks of virtue signalling when they "signed the pledge" and jumped on the bandwagon of temperance, only to fall off the wagon when their enthusiasm waned...
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Post by JoannaHoyt »

TriciaG wrote: April 26th, 2021, 5:34 am I pretty much agree with Joanna.

To me, Jumping on the Bandwagon is joining a cause, supporting a sports team, etc. that one sees others joining. It's emotional enthusiasm, and it's personal ("I am joining this cause").

Virtue Signalling, on the other hand, is telling others you've joined a cause with the intent of being disdainful of those who don't agree. It's more outward focused. ("I have joined this cause, and you're a bad person if you don't also.") That may be a bit strong, though; it may just be someone "wearing their colours on their sleeve" with less intent to look down on others. :hmm:

"Falling off the wagon" was originally a term for those who had joined the temperance cause, pledging not to drink anymore, and who backslid. I think it's a similar thing; they jumped on the bandwagon of abstinence, perhaps in a wave of enthusiasm and social pressure, then went back to their old drinking ways.

Was the temperance bandwagon also virtue signalling? Hmm, maybe. I think Virtue Signalling is a derogatory term, with that accusation of being better than those around you who don't agree with you. So people could have accused folks of virtue signalling when they "signed the pledge" and jumped on the bandwagon of temperance, only to fall off the wagon when their enthusiasm waned...
Hmm, so "virtue signaling" doesn't necessarily imply insincerity but does imply disapproval of people who disagree?
That's useful to know, and changes how I should reply next time someone says I'm doing that... no wonder we've often failed to understand each other, since maybe I've been trying to rebut the wrong accusation...
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TriciaG
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Post by TriciaG »

That's my take on it. I don't think there are any formal definitions, so I may be wrong, too. :)
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ElizaZ
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Post by ElizaZ »

I am going to offer a slightly different take on the term virtue signaling as I believe it means doing something good for the purpose of being noticed and gaining attention/accolades. Of course people who would do good deeds just to get noticed (who are literally signaling their virtue to everyone around them) would probably think they are better than others, but I don’t think that’s the main connotation.

The problem with the term virtue signaling is that you can accuse anyone who does something good of doing it for the wrong reasons. “Oh, you feed hungry children? You’re just doing it to be praised.” There’s no good response when you are accused of virtue signaling. How can you prove you have good motives when no one can see your heart? Honestly, I would go so far as to say that pointing out that others are virtue signaling has become its own form of virtue signaling. “Look at how they are virtue signaling. People who are only in it for attention disgust me because I’m so genuine.” Is this really what we’ve come to? Trying to judge everyone’s motives when they do or say something decent?

To answer the original question I don’t think there is much overlap between the two terms except that everyone is currently jumping on the bandwagon by accusing others of virtue signaling.
ElizaZ
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Post by ElizaZ »

Actually I take it back; I do see a similarity now. Bandwagon = following what everyone else is doing to fit in. Virtue signaling = doing or saying something good to be praised by the group.
DavidYoung
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Post by DavidYoung »

I can imagine a few situations when a person would openly admit that they were jumping on a bandwagon, but I can't see one where someone would come out and say they were virtue signalling.
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