What’s the Big Deal?

Everything except LibriVox (yes, this is where knitting gets discussed. Now includes non-LV Volunteers Wanted projects)
Bookworm360
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Post by Bookworm360 » May 8th, 2021, 3:27 pm

KevinS wrote:
May 8th, 2021, 1:25 pm
JoannaHoyt wrote:
May 8th, 2021, 12:55 pm
I never quite understood the concern about the magic in Harry Potter. If a kid did take it literally and try pointing sticks at things or people and shouting Latin imperatives, they'd maybe learn some Latin, but they'd also soon notice that it didn't actually do anything. If they decided this was because they needed phoenix feathers or dragon heartstrings... well, that would also put them off attempting practical magic.
Shout a Latin imperative at me and I assure you something would happen. (Wink.)
OK. Satis eloquentiae sapientae parum. Guess the meaning! :mrgreen:
2 Timothy 1:7. Look it up.
Check out these projects:
Understood Betsy(Dramatic Reading)
Works of the Right Hon. Edmund Burke
DR scene & story collection, vol.3

zachh
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Post by zachh » May 8th, 2021, 4:15 pm

I thought it had to be in ALL CAPS to count as shouting online, but maybe that's an outdated idea now.

KevinS
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Post by KevinS » May 8th, 2021, 5:23 pm

Bookworm360 wrote:
May 8th, 2021, 3:27 pm
KevinS wrote:
May 8th, 2021, 1:25 pm
JoannaHoyt wrote:
May 8th, 2021, 12:55 pm
I never quite understood the concern about the magic in Harry Potter. If a kid did take it literally and try pointing sticks at things or people and shouting Latin imperatives, they'd maybe learn some Latin, but they'd also soon notice that it didn't actually do anything. If they decided this was because they needed phoenix feathers or dragon heartstrings... well, that would also put them off attempting practical magic.
Shout a Latin imperative at me and I assure you something would happen. (Wink.)
OK. Satis eloquentiae sapientae parum. Guess the meaning! :mrgreen:
Haha! I don't even have eloquence!
I've pinched a nerve in my neck. Ouch! Things have slowed down quite a bit I'm afraid. My LibriVox: https://librivox.org/sections/readers/13278

JoannaHoyt
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Post by JoannaHoyt » May 8th, 2021, 5:50 pm

KevinS wrote:
May 8th, 2021, 1:25 pm

Shout a Latin imperative at me and I assure you something would happen. (Wink.)
NUNC DA MIHI EXEMPLUM! (ducks either in apology or anticipatory self-defense)
Seeking readers for The Devil's Disciple, viewtopic.php?f=27&t=87752

KevinS
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Post by KevinS » May 8th, 2021, 6:24 pm

JoannaHoyt wrote:
May 8th, 2021, 5:50 pm
KevinS wrote:
May 8th, 2021, 1:25 pm

Shout a Latin imperative at me and I assure you something would happen. (Wink.)
NUNC DA MIHI EXEMPLUM! (ducks either in apology or anticipatory self-defense)
videor saevus (Wink.)
Last edited by KevinS on May 8th, 2021, 6:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I've pinched a nerve in my neck. Ouch! Things have slowed down quite a bit I'm afraid. My LibriVox: https://librivox.org/sections/readers/13278

zachh
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Post by zachh » May 8th, 2021, 6:54 pm

JoannaHoyt wrote:
May 8th, 2021, 5:50 pm
KevinS wrote:
May 8th, 2021, 1:25 pm

Shout a Latin imperative at me and I assure you something would happen. (Wink.)
NUNC DA MIHI EXEMPLUM! (ducks either in apology or anticipatory self-defense)
I think it's more likely the latter. I have yet to see ducks apologize, but I have seen them in anticipatory self defense mode.

KevinS
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Post by KevinS » May 8th, 2021, 7:01 pm

zachh wrote:
May 8th, 2021, 6:54 pm
JoannaHoyt wrote:
May 8th, 2021, 5:50 pm
KevinS wrote:
May 8th, 2021, 1:25 pm

Shout a Latin imperative at me and I assure you something would happen. (Wink.)
NUNC DA MIHI EXEMPLUM! (ducks either in apology or anticipatory self-defense)
I think it's more likely the latter. I have yet to see ducks apologize, but I have seen them in anticipatory self defense mode.
I understand that it's around the swans one has to be careful.
I've pinched a nerve in my neck. Ouch! Things have slowed down quite a bit I'm afraid. My LibriVox: https://librivox.org/sections/readers/13278

schrm
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Post by schrm » May 15th, 2021, 12:23 pm

SonOfTheExiles wrote:
May 2nd, 2021, 2:17 am
Here is a variation on your ‘Book Story’.

What book did you read, which was either banned or restricted or censured in your parents’ younger days, that struck you as ‘What was the big deal?’
several..

one of them i cannot understand to this day, why it was banned: ronja räubertochter by astrid lindgren
i think, it was never forbidden, since i bought the book here in austria.
but there were newspaper articles, eg..
sure, it is not religious, it is motivating adolescents to think and maybe even to...live their lifes.

another one which is forbidden with reason (in many countries at least) is marquis de sade 120 days of sodom
useless book starting like a satiric fairy tale and ending in endless pages of (tables?) lists of tortures, murders, tortured surviving victims and sexual sadists.
the only book i ever threw away and not in the paper reccling, but in the trash with used cat litter.
actually, i bought an all works series and threw them all into the trash.
but somehow, i meet this behaviour again and again. maybe, he was one of the first great psychologists in his way.

the next one i have read for parts is mein kampf by adolf hitler.
in austria, it is allowed in an educational context, only.
and quotations eg. on historical teaching dvd collections, encyclopedias and that sort of stuff.
this time, it was not for fun and not totally useless...
there are sentences, parts, which..
explain it all, somehow.
i think, marketing teachers are able to analyze this book.
and in discussions with politicially interested, or opinion having people, it often starts some discussions.
cheers
wolfi
reader/12275
i apologize for waiting times at the moment - i hope to have more time to contribute, soon.

en: lay down your arms
de: sammlung prosa, das geschlecht der zukunft, hoffmann: ostseemärchen
dpl: hoffmann
solo: na prost!

Bookworm360
Posts: 573
Joined: December 25th, 2017, 11:23 pm
Location: Diamondplains University, Spritiworld

Post by Bookworm360 » May 15th, 2021, 3:06 pm

schrm wrote:
May 15th, 2021, 12:23 pm
SonOfTheExiles wrote:
May 2nd, 2021, 2:17 am
Here is a variation on your ‘Book Story’.

What book did you read, which was either banned or restricted or censured in your parents’ younger days, that struck you as ‘What was the big deal?’
several..

one of them i cannot understand to this day, why it was banned: ronja räubertochter by astrid lindgren
i think, it was never forbidden, since i bought the book here in austria.
but there were newspaper articles, eg..
sure, it is not religious, it is motivating adolescents to think and maybe even to...live their lifes.
Is that Ronja the Robber’s Daughter? What’s wrong with THAT one?! :shock: These times we live in... :cry:
2 Timothy 1:7. Look it up.
Check out these projects:
Understood Betsy(Dramatic Reading)
Works of the Right Hon. Edmund Burke
DR scene & story collection, vol.3

schrm
Posts: 3655
Joined: February 10th, 2018, 11:02 am
Location: Austria

Post by schrm » May 15th, 2021, 10:24 pm

Bookworm360 wrote:
May 15th, 2021, 3:06 pm
Is that Ronja the Robber’s Daughter? What’s wrong with THAT one?! :shock: These times we live in... :cry:
well, there was rumor, that it was forbidden...
but with a quick google search, i honestly couldn't find any hint for that.
what i remember, the rumor said something about disobedience, non-catholic contents, and so on.
so maybe it was just in that area..

as i said: i bought it in austria, so there was nothing official in my adolescent years.
cheers
wolfi
reader/12275
i apologize for waiting times at the moment - i hope to have more time to contribute, soon.

en: lay down your arms
de: sammlung prosa, das geschlecht der zukunft, hoffmann: ostseemärchen
dpl: hoffmann
solo: na prost!

JoannaHoyt
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Joined: January 10th, 2021, 8:27 am
Location: Orwell, NY, USA
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Post by JoannaHoyt » May 17th, 2021, 4:13 pm

schrm wrote:
May 15th, 2021, 12:23 pm

the next one i have read for parts is mein kampf by adolf hitler.
in austria, it is allowed in an educational context, only.
and quotations eg. on historical teaching dvd collections, encyclopedias and that sort of stuff.
this time, it was not for fun and not totally useless...
there are sentences, parts, which..
explain it all, somehow.
i think, marketing teachers are able to analyze this book.
and in discussions with politicially interested, or opinion having people, it often starts some discussions.
I can see the value of allowing such a book only in an educational context. I have not read Mein Kampf or even parts of it, but I have read some very disturbing historical documents from my own country (the USA) which attempted to justify slavery, the exclusion or abuse of non-English immigrants, etc. (as well as some disturbing contemporary documents which make startlingly similar arguments in the latter case...)

How does that work in practice--how does it work to permit a book in certain contexts only? How does whoever enforces that rule determine whether the book is being used educationally or not?

Also, how do they judge the way in which it is being presented educationally? I am thinking of a friend who told me that he was acting as a private tutor for some children and teaching them world history and philosophy out of a 1925 book which he highly recommended. I read the book and was dismayed to see that it taught that everything good in world history came from European Christians and that all other civilization, religions and races were inferior (and usually also immoral). I checked back with my friend to see if he was using the book to illustrate period bias. No, he said, he saw it as teaching the truth. (We had a lot of uncomfortable discussions about that and we are no longer friends.)
Seeking readers for The Devil's Disciple, viewtopic.php?f=27&t=87752

JayKitty76
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Post by JayKitty76 » May 17th, 2021, 4:19 pm

JoannaHoyt wrote:
May 17th, 2021, 4:13 pm
schrm wrote:
May 15th, 2021, 12:23 pm

the next one i have read for parts is mein kampf by adolf hitler.
in austria, it is allowed in an educational context, only.
and quotations eg. on historical teaching dvd collections, encyclopedias and that sort of stuff.
this time, it was not for fun and not totally useless...
there are sentences, parts, which..
explain it all, somehow.
i think, marketing teachers are able to analyze this book.
and in discussions with politicially interested, or opinion having people, it often starts some discussions.
I can see the value of allowing such a book only in an educational context. I have not read Mein Kampf or even parts of it, but I have read some very disturbing historical documents from my own country (the USA) which attempted to justify slavery, the exclusion or abuse of non-English immigrants, etc. (as well as some disturbing contemporary documents which make startlingly similar arguments in the latter case...)

How does that work in practice--how does it work to permit a book in certain contexts only? How does whoever enforces that rule determine whether the book is being used educationally or not?

Also, how do they judge the way in which it is being presented educationally? I am thinking of a friend who told me that he was acting as a private tutor for some children and teaching them world history and philosophy out of a 1925 book which he highly recommended. I read the book and was dismayed to see that it taught that everything good in world history came from European Christians and that all other civilization, religions and races were inferior (and usually also immoral). I checked back with my friend to see if he was using the book to illustrate period bias. No, he said, he saw it as teaching the truth. (We had a lot of uncomfortable discussions about that and we are no longer friends.)
The way I see those types of books is that they have historical value, being written from peoples' points of view years and years ago, but I wouldn't read it for anything else (trying to learn/relate to those worldviews, really.) Those views are outdated and while they were never right, they were acceptable back then.
I don't know if they should be taught in schools, though. I agree with the question of how schoolteachers/management regulates the presentation of these books; safer not to teach them at all, maybe? Books that justify slavery/race inferiority/etc are not books worth reading, imo, even if they're books that teach the mindsets of the 1800s/whenever.
That's different from books like Huck Finn, though, because though it does have those themes, Huck fights against these stereotypes and befriends a black slave, etc. Or like Uncle Tom's Cabin was written to fight racism by exposing the horrors of slavery, not justify it. And To Kill a Mockingbird is a great one too. Books like that have a lot of value other than the racist views held in it and should definitely be taught in schools. Just my opinion.
Rachel
insanely busy lately. doing my best to keep up with lv workload.
~2 Timothy 4:7~
Little Men Understood Betsy The Juvenile Bible

JoannaHoyt
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Post by JoannaHoyt » May 17th, 2021, 5:34 pm

JayKitty76 wrote:
May 17th, 2021, 4:19 pm


The way I see those types of books is that they have historical value, being written from peoples' points of view years and years ago, but I wouldn't read it for anything else (trying to learn/relate to those worldviews, really.) Those views are outdated and while they were never right, they were acceptable back then.
I don't know if they should be taught in schools, though. I agree with the question of how schoolteachers/management regulates the presentation of these books; safer not to teach them at all, maybe? Books that justify slavery/race inferiority/etc are not books worth reading, imo, even if they're books that teach the mindsets of the 1800s/whenever.
That's different from books like Huck Finn, though, because though it does have those themes, Huck fights against these stereotypes and befriends a black slave, etc. Or like Uncle Tom's Cabin was written to fight racism by exposing the horrors of slavery, not justify it. And To Kill a Mockingbird is a great one too. Books like that have a lot of value other than the racist views held in it and should definitely be taught in schools. Just my opinion.
Yes, I don't know the answer to the question of what should be taught in schools--I was unschooled and read a lot of primary source documents from widely varied points of view, none of which anyone was mandating me to learn. I do find that that reading informs my reading of present debates, and does make it easier to recognize certain resonances (e.g. in the extensive similarities between things some people say about Middle Eastern Muslim immigrants today and things some people wrote about Irish Catholic immigrants in the late 1800s)...
Seeking readers for The Devil's Disciple, viewtopic.php?f=27&t=87752

schrm
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Joined: February 10th, 2018, 11:02 am
Location: Austria

Post by schrm » May 18th, 2021, 2:04 am

to advertise, propagate, promote or diminuish the crimes of the regime is forbidden, also are acitivities of the nazi regimes organisations, or working with their aims.
symbols, fotografs, statues, to own the book can be a crime which can be punished.
there are some exceptions like museums, teaching (which cannot be done without using photographs with forbidden symbols, i think), and i think also journalism in some cases.
in journaalism, besides the law and therefore judges who judge about that, often with the help of experts, there are several organisations who try to watch the rules of journalism.

as for "is that somehoww not clear, insecurities and so on?"
to my experience, the only people who really have a problem with that rules and try to act against eg enligjtments,clarifications and so on, most times of poorer people, are people with an inclination to like parts of the forbidden areas themselves.

there is no doubt that you have to talk with politically radical right adolescents, wether eg their families try to report you, or not.
cheers
wolfi
reader/12275
i apologize for waiting times at the moment - i hope to have more time to contribute, soon.

en: lay down your arms
de: sammlung prosa, das geschlecht der zukunft, hoffmann: ostseemärchen
dpl: hoffmann
solo: na prost!

Bookworm360
Posts: 573
Joined: December 25th, 2017, 11:23 pm
Location: Diamondplains University, Spritiworld

Post by Bookworm360 » May 19th, 2021, 5:44 am

schrm wrote:
May 15th, 2021, 10:24 pm
Bookworm360 wrote:
May 15th, 2021, 3:06 pm
Is that Ronja the Robber’s Daughter? What’s wrong with THAT one?! :shock: These times we live in... :cry:
well, there was rumor, that it was forbidden...
but with a quick google search, i honestly couldn't find any hint for that.
what i remember, the rumor said something about disobedience, non-catholic contents, and so on.
so maybe it was just in that area..

as i said: i bought it in austria, so there was nothing official in my adolescent years.
Whew! It’s a lovely story. :thumbs:
2 Timothy 1:7. Look it up.
Check out these projects:
Understood Betsy(Dramatic Reading)
Works of the Right Hon. Edmund Burke
DR scene & story collection, vol.3

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