In Honour of the 14th Anniversary of LV, plz proofread and make ebooks on PG written by fourteen different writers?

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rita1075
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Post by rita1075 » October 6th, 2019, 3:35 am

In Honour of the 14th Anniversary of LV, plz proofread and make ebooks on PG written by fourteen different writers?

Hello, it's already October. Here, I came to give a difficult but necessary proposal to all LV volunteers. I propose to you that, in honour of LibriVox's 14th anniversary, let's digitize, proofread and upload several books by fourteen different writers.
I may look like an outlandish person, but the books I mention below, all of them, are important books. And I think it's a shame that those books are available online only as either a series of image files or audio files. I am not directing my frustration to LV or its volunteers; rather, I am frustrated that the books mentioned below are available only as image files or unproofread, raw OCRed txt files, so they are useless for me and other blind, dyslexic, or deafblind people. So, I ask again: please digitize, proofread and upload the following books by fourteen different writers to Project Gutenberg.

** My wishlist of books I want to download from Project Gutenberg and read in braille**

The books below were written by fourteen different writers or organizations.


01. [Complete: POETRY] Poems recorded in Greenwich - various -law

I mentioned this book as the first book, and I did it on purpose. As you can see from the catalog page for this book, the poem, "Last Night I Heard a Thunderstorm in Style" by Robert Louis Stevenson, is not available on Project Gutenberg as of October 2019. But more importantly, the recording of the aforementioned poem was done by our very own founder of LibriVox, Hugh McGuire. I am sure that the greatest homage we can give to him is to digitize, proofread and upload "Poems Hitherto Unpublished, Published in 1921" by Robert Louis Stevenson. You can find the complete text of "Last Night I Heard a Thunderstorm in Style" from that book. Currently, that book is only available as a series of fragmented links from WikiSource. What we have to do is to acquire all the Internet Archive images of that book, digitize and proofread each image carefully, and do all the formatting for the HTML ebook for Project Gutenberg. Then, in the future, I can download that book from PG in txt format and read it in braille, while my sighted coworkers or friends can read the same book in HTML format on PG.

LibriVox Catalog Page:
http://librivox.org/poems-recorded-in-deptford-and-greenwich-by-various/


POEMS BY ROBERT LOUIS STEVENSON
(HITHERTO UNPUBLISHED)
WITH INTRODUCTION AND NOTES BY GEORGE S. HELLMAN AND WILLIAM P. TRENT
PRIVATELY PRINTED FOR MR. FRANCIS S. PEABODY
CHICAGO MCMXXI

(You can see from the WikiSource page of this book that it contains the poem, "Last night we had a thunderstorm in style." Please consider digitizing this etext as a single volume, in both plain text(.txt) and HTML, hence making it possible to generate epub and DAISY files with this etext. The etext MUST be digitized for Project Gutenberg(www.gutenberg.org), because the poem "Last night we had a thunderstorm in style" features our very own founder of LibriVox, Hugh McGuire.

WikiSource Text URL:

https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Poems,_by_Robert_Louis_Stevenson,_hitherto_unpublished





02. [COMPLETE] [Group] The Chaucer Storybook - kit

I can guess from this book's title that it is for young children, written down to introduce Chaucer in a kids-friendly way. But also, I thought that this book might be useful not only for children, it would be a great value to a high school student studying English as a second language. I mean, what if that high school student is about to begin his/her freshman year in college and s/he has to read the works of Chaucer? As you may already know, Chaucer's English, especially spelling, is markedly different from the 21st century modern English. I think that if this book could be made available on Project Gutenberg, it would be a huge benefit for everyone. A high school who's curious about Middle English or Chaucer could download The Chaucer Storybook as an ebook and get a taste of Chaucer's writing style and Middle English. A child in America or other European countries who's fluent in English could be entertained by this book. Of course, Project Gutenberg has an ebook titled "Chaucer for Children: A Golden Key". But I am sure that The Chaucer Storybook may have another magical key hidden inside. So, my suggestion is, let's make this book accessible literally to ANYONE, ANYWHERE! Blind, dyslexic, deaf, deafblind people should never be excluded from accessing this or any other ebook. The only viable solution for all is to digitize and proofread this book. Please digitize and proofread The Chaucer Storybook for Project Gutenberg.
LibriVox Catalog Page:

https://librivox.org/the-chaucer-storybook-by-eva-march-tappan/


Text URL:

https://archive.org/details/chaucerstorybook00chau


03. Misinforming a Nation by Van Dine, S. S


Text URL:
https://archive.org/details/misinformingnati00vanduoft

The book reviewer on The Internet Archive says this book points out all the mistakes, prejudices, racism, colonialism, etc. shown upon The Encyclopedia Britanica, 11th Edition. Project Gutenberg has a number of Encyclopedia Britanica as etexts, so, this time, how about adding this book for balance? Please proofread and upload Misinforming a Nation to Project Gutenberg.


04. The Art Of Cookery Made Plain And Easy, by Hannah Glasse from 1784

I heard the title of this book for the first time when someone suggested here on the LibriVox forum that a reader interested in cooking or food could record this book. I am sure that this cookbook could be fun and useful to many people, including housewives, students, scholars and many more. And blind people are of no exception here. In fact, many blind people enjoy cooking. There are even blind chefs in the US. So, please don't turn anyone away from the table and let anyone, nay, EVERYONE, enjoy the food of knowledge and wisdom. The only place I and other blind people can enjoy the feast of knowledge is on Project Gutenberg. Please digitize, proofread and upload this book to Project Gutenberg.

LibriVox Catalog Page:
https://librivox.org/the-art-of-cookery-made-plain-and-easy-by-hannah-glasse/
Text URL:

https://archive.org/details/artcookerymadep00glasgoog
05. The passing of Korea by Homer B. Hulbert



Text URL:

https://archive.org/details/passingkorea00hulbgoog/page/n13
As far as I know, this book has not been recorded by any LibriVox volunteer. And sadly, it has not been available on Project Gutenberg, even after the 70th anniversary of the author's death. Homer Hulbert first came to Chosun as a missionary and an English teacher, and he got to love Chosun, which later became Korea. It is reportedly said that when the author's death was near, he said that I would rather be buried in Korea than the Westminster Abbey. As a Korean, and as a way of giving gratitude to Homer Hulbert, how about digitizing, proofreading and uploading The Passing of Korea onto Project Gutenberg? After all, the founder of the Project Gutenberg, Michael Hart, once was stationed in South Korea. I got to read about this while reading Michael's biography and orbituaries toward him. So, it could be even more appropriate if we digitize, proofread and upload a book about Korea on Project Gutenberg.


06. The Works of William Shakespeare, Cambridge Edition, Volume 09 by William Shakespeare

If I had to choose just one book that needs to be digitized and proofread right now, I would, without any hesitation, choose this book. It is simply unacceptable that even after almost one hundred years from the editors' death, this book is still accessible only as image files and unproofed, raw OCRed txt files. For us, the blind people, unproofed, raw OCRed txt files provided by the Internet Archive can be compared to giving the blind people unskinned, unclean, dirty food at a restraunt. Sorry to be too dramatic, but it is true. Let me show you an example. Please try to imagine that you are a totally deaf, blind person just like Helen Keller, and the only file you got from the Internet Archive for the book displaying texts like this:
CENTRE
for
REFORMATIO1N
and
RENAISSANCE
STUDIES

VICTORIA
UNIVERSITY

T O R O N T O



THE W 0 R K S

OF

WlLLIAM

S H A K ES P EARE.



CAIIBRIDGE :
PRINTED BY C. J. CLAY II.A.
AF THE UNIVERSITY PRESS.



THE \VORKS

<F

WILLIAM

SHAKESPEARE

EDITED B¥

,VILLIAM GEORGE CLARK, M.A.
FELLOXV AND TUTOR OF TRINITY COLLEGE, AND PUBLIC O1KATOR IN "FILE
UNIVERSITY OF CAMBRIDGE

AND "VILLIAM ALDIS WRIGHT, M.A.
LIBRARIAN OF TRINITY COLLEGE≫ CAMBRIDGE,

FOL U.ME LU.

onon artl ,atnbrg:
MACMILLAN AND CO.
1866.



CONTENTS.

THE Preface . .
ANTONY AND CLEOPATRA ?
Notes to Antony and Cleopatra
CYBIBELINE
Notes to Cymbeline
PERICLES
Notes to Pericles

3

POEMS.

VENUS AND ADONIS
THE RAPE OF LUCRECE
SONNETS
NOTES TO NONNETS
A LOYER'S COMPLAINT
NOTE TO A LOVER'S COMPLAINT
THE PASSIONATE I)ILGRIM
NOTES TO THE PASSIONATE PlLGRI-I
THE I)HCENIX AND THE TURTLE

437
485
55
63
635
648
65
668
670



PREFACE.

I. THE TRAGEDIE OF Jk_NTHON[E, AND CLEOPATRA,
vas printed for the first time in the Folio of I623.
An adaptation of the play for the stage, published by
Capell in I758, is quoted in out notes as 'Capell's Version.'

2. THE TRAGEDIE OF CYMBELINE, xvhich likewise
first appeared in the Folio of I623, is the last play in that
volume. The edition of 'Garrick's Version,' quoted in our
notes, was published in I762.

3. PERICLES, PRINCE OF TYRE, was first published, in
Quarto, in the year I6O9, with the following title-page :
T-IE LATE, [And much admired Play, [ Called [ Pericles,
Prince [ of Tyre. [ With the true Relation of the whole Historie, I
aduentures, and fortunes of the said Prince:[ As also, [ The
no lesse strange, and worthy accidents, [ in the Birth and Life, of
his Daughter [ 3/ARZdWM. [ As it bath been diuers and sundry
tilnes a&ed by [lais Maiesties Seruants, at the Globe on [the
Banck-side. [By William Shakespeare. [ Imprinted at London
for tellJ'y Gosso,, and are ]to be sold at the signe of the
Sunne in [ Pater-noster row, &c. [ 6o 9. I
Another edition was issued in the same year. As the
title-pages are absolutely identical, it has hitherto been
supposed that there was but one edition, and that the
discrepancies between the copies were due to printers' cor-
recCtions made while the sheets were passing through the
press. A careful examination of the different copies has
however convinced us that there vcere two distin& editions,
and ceoEain minute indications have enabled us to decide
which of the two was thc carlicr. This ve call Q,. The



PREFACE.

I. THE TRAGEDIE OF _ANTHONIE, AND CLEOPATRA,
was printed for the first time in the Folio of I623.
An adaptation of the play for the stage, published by
Capell in I758, is quoted in our notes as 'Capell's Version.'

2. THE TRAGEDIE OF CYMBELINE, which likewise
first appeared in the Folio of 1623, is the last play in that
volume. The edition of 'Garrick's Version,' quoted in our
notes, was published in I762.

3- PERICLES, PRINCE OF TYRE, xvas first published, in
Quarto, in the year 6o9, with the following title-page :
THE LATE, [And much admired Play, [ Called ] Pericles,
Prince [ of Tyre. [ With the true Relation of the whole Historie, I
aduentures, and fortunes of the said Prince: [ As also, ] The
no lesse strange, and worthy accidents, ] in the Birth and Life, of
his Daughter ] 3[ARIA_/VA. [ As it hath been diuers and sundry
times a&ed by I his Maiesties Seruants, at the Globe on ] the
13anck-side. I 13y William Shakespeare. ] Imprinted at London
for Z-[eltl 3, Gosso,, and are I to be sold at the signe of the
Sunne in[ Pater-noster row, &c. [ 16o 9. [
Another edition was issued in the same year. As the
title-pages are absolutely identical, it has hitherto been
supposed that there was but one edition, and that the
discrepancies between the copies were due to printers' cor-
recCtions made while the sheets were passing through the
press. _/k careful examination of the different copies has
however convinced us that there were two distincCt editions,
and certain minute indications have enabled us to decide
which of the two was the earlicr. This we call Q,. The



second ve term Q_. We have consulted three copies of Q, ;
which are found in the Bodleian, the Capell Colle&ion,
and the British Museum. The last is marked in the cata-
logue C. I2. h. 5. Of Q2 we have collated two copies, one
in the Duke of Devonshire's library and one in the British
Museum, marked C. 34- k. 36.
_A_nother copy of tcrich's I6o9, is in the Public Library
at Hambul-g. From a sample of the various readings given
in a note by M. Tycho Mommsen, in the preface to his
reprint of Wilkins' Novel, we recognize it as a copy of Q_.
Besides these, we know of no other copies of the two
editions of I6O 9.
There is also in the British Museum (C. 34- k. 37) a
unique copy of an edition in Quarto dated I6I I, which
formerly belonged to Mr Halliwell. The title-page is as
fAlows :

THE LATE, ]And much admired Play, ] Called ] Pericles,
Prince ] of Tyre. ] Vith the true Relation of the whole History, ]
aduentures, and fortunes of the sayd Prince: ] As also, ] The
no lesse strange, and worthy accidents, ] in the 13irth and Life,
of his Daughter].Lq2ZA2VA. ]As it hath beene diuers and
sundry times acCted by ] his Maiestyes Seruants, at the Globe on
I the Banck-side. ] By FITlli≪m ch≪k≪s2beare. ] Printed at London
by S. S. 11611. ]

How can a blind or deafblind student participate in Shakespeare or other English literature classes with such a clumsy, unproofread text? To me, the situation cannot be tolerated. Shakespeare died over 400 years ago. Even the editor who lived long enough to see a new century's beginning, died in 1914. Let this book be proofread carefully, the formatting done correctly, and be uploaded to Project Gutenberg.
I understand that proofreading, formatting and digitizing this book can be daunting. I guess the hardest part will be doing the formatting correctly, considering that this book contains Shakespeare's poems, and it also has a lot of footnotes and endnotes. However, I am confident that the digitization process is worth doing. After this book is made available on Project Gutenberg, I, my friends, and everyone who enjoys reading Shakespeare's works will be delighted. And it will be one of the greatest cultural heritage, passed through online libraries for generations to come. Please, begin the process now. The time is NOW!

Text URL:
https://archive.org/details/shakespeareworks09claruoft

07. The Works of Christopher Marlowe, Volume 01, Edited by A. H. Bullen.

Christopher Marlowe is one of the most famous poet and dramatist in the Renaissance period. Especially, his play, Doctor Faustus, is said to be the inspiration for Goethe's famous play, The Faust. However, the strange and inconvenient truth is that the volume 01 of The Works of Christopher Marlowe, which contains the text of the play, Doctor Faustus, is not available on Project Gutenberg. Volumes 02 and 03 of Marlowe's works, edited by A. H. Bullen, can be found and downloaded easily on Project Gutenberg, but I cannot find the most important volume, Volume 01, from there. Something needs to be done. Unfortunately, I cannot find any text URL for that book, but I ask LV volunteers to look for the aforementioned book from the Internet, acquire all the scanned images, proofread the text, do the formatting and upload Marlowe's Works, Volume 01, to Project Gutenberg. Some scholars say that many of Shakespeare's plays may actually have been written down by Marlowe, and one scholar published a book titled "Shakespeare, thy name is Marlowe." I think students who are studying Shakespearean plays or poems must also have the access to Marlowe's Works, Volume 01. His work is so important to be left hidden inside an image, inaccessible to the blind and the deafblind people.

08. Final Report of the Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities (Watergate Report) by Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities


Currently, I cannot read the Watergate report in braille, because the book is not available on Project Gutenberg. It contrasts with the situation regarding the Warren Commission Report, because the report itself, as well as the Warren Commission hearings transcripts which consist of 15 volumes, are all downloadable on Project Gutenberg. And the Distributed Proofreaders are diligently working to proofread, format and upload the remaining exhibits and the court hearing transcript. I would like to watch the same thing happening regarding the Watergate report. Please digitize, proofread and upload the complete Watergate report on Project Gutenberg. And if available, please also upload any related documents regarding the Watergate scandal, such as House hearings or Senate hearings.



Text URL:

https://archive.org/details/FinalReportOfTheSenateSelectCommitteeOnPresidentialCampaignActivities


09. A History of Greece: To the Death of Alexander the Great, Volumes 01 through 03, by John Bagnell Bury


I wonder why LV volunteers had to use the Google Books as the text source for those two volumes. After all, Google Books is not (And has *never* been) accessible with screen readers, the blind people, and it even blocks residents of some non-European countries from accessing the collection completely. Worst of all, Google Books even does not allow downloading the ebooks which they themselves had marked as public domain. I am compelled to say that this is a form of abuse. The dominance and monopoly of Google Books *must* end *right now*! We should digitize, proofread, format and upload A History of Greece: to the Death of Alexander The Great" in its entirety to Project Gutenberg. No one, absolutely NO ONE, should be blocked or excluded from accessing or downloading ebooks solely based on their country of residence, disabilities or ethnicity! I am fed up with that! I had enough of that! THE BOOK FAMINE SHOULD, AND MUST, END RIGHT NOW!!!

LibriVox Catalog Page:

https://librivox.org/a-history-of-greece-to-the-death-of-alexander-the-great-vol-1-by-j-b-bury/



http://librivox.org/hist-of-greece-to-death-of-alexander-vol2-by-j-b-bury/



Text URL:

http://books.google.com/books?id=O28bAAAAMAAJ&dq=a+history+of+greece+bury&psp=1



I will keep adding new requests for the Project Gutenberg ebook challenge. Project Gutenberg is the *ONLY* place where I can download public domain ebooks in accessible plain txt, epub and HTML format, and more work needs to be done to add new books daily to Project Gutenberg by Distributed Proofreaders.
Last edited by rita1075 on October 6th, 2019, 3:47 pm, edited 3 times in total.

TriciaG
LibriVox Admin Team
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Post by TriciaG » October 6th, 2019, 5:39 am

FYI, only 5 suggestions are posted. I'm not sure if this is intentional or not.

You want LibriVox people to get these texts ready for Project Gutenberg?

While there are some volunteers at LibriVox that also volunteer at Distributed Proofreaders, it would be completely outside our mission to have our volunteers take time away from recording audiobooks to prepare texts for PG.

I did a quick look at their forum, and I don't see a Book Suggestions area like we have. Perhaps one of our crossover volunteers will take up this challenge and present it to Distributed Proofreaders.

Here's DP's site: https://www.pgdp.net/c/
And here's their forum: https://www.pgdp.net/phpBB3/
Christmas Lore: LINK
Proofs the Earth Isn't a Globe: LINK
Mystery stories: The Master of Mysteries

Elizabby
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Joined: April 1st, 2011, 5:36 pm
Location: Kelsingra

Post by Elizabby » October 7th, 2019, 12:49 am

So, I ask again: please digitize, proofread and upload the following books by fourteen different writers to Project Gutenberg.
Surely this request should be made to PG rather than Librivox? You do realise that we only make audiobooks, right? We don't digitise, proofread or upload anything.

I see that you have Shakespeare on your list - I'm pretty sure that everything of Shakespeare's is already on PG. It may not be in your preferred format, but I don't see that we can do anything about that.

I'm a bit confused by your request about the Chaucer Storybook - we've recorded this already. If you want PG to do something with it, I think you need to talk to them about it.

If you have texts that you would like made into audiobooks, that's what we do here.

For the 14th anniversary we made a 14-themed collection already, see here: https://librivox.org/librivox-14th-anniversary-collection-by-various/

annise
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Location: Melbourne,Australia

Post by annise » October 7th, 2019, 2:11 am

I think it would be better if you kept the suggestions together in your other thread - but I would have to say few people here would have the expertise needed to produce an ebook as Tricia said. We produce audiobooks so anyone who wanted to help would need to join over there.

Anne

rita1075
Posts: 141
Joined: April 16th, 2007, 7:14 pm
Location: Seoul, South Korea
Contact:

Post by rita1075 » October 7th, 2019, 7:45 pm

Elizabby wrote:



"I see that you have Shakespeare on your list -
I'm pretty sure that everything of Shakespeare's is
already on PG. It may not be in your preferred format, but I don't see that we can do anything about"
that.


I don't get this. There *is* something, nay, there *are* MANY things LibriVox volunteers can do about the unavailability of Shakespeare's Works, Cambridge Edition Volume 09 on Project Gutenberg.
The first thing LibriVox volunteers can, and should do is to join as volunteers for Distributed Proofreaders website. Tricia already had given us the URL of the PGDP website. As a reminder, here's the URL:
http://www.pgdp.net
The structure of the forum is similar to LibriVox, considering that it uses the same version of the PHPBB software to operate the forum. Among 9400 or so volunteers, 140 of LV volunteers can join the PGDP as members and volunteers, and they can begin digitizing and proofreading the Cambridge Edition of Shakespeare's Works Volume 09 RIGHT AWAY! Then, each of those 140 volunteers can spread the word about Project Gutenberg and Distributed Proofreaders, and they can link to my post. Or, if there is an LV SiteAdmin among those 140 volunteers, s/he can also post my proposal on the LV blog page.
Elizabby said that "I'm pretty sure that everything of Shakespeare's is already on PG". However, the Shakespeare poems and the plays Anthony and Cleopatra, Cymbeline, and Pericles? The texts available on PG are not scholarly editions. How can a college student quote those etexts on his or her academic paper or a homework? Please contrast that situation with the following: The Works of William Shakespeare: Cambridge Edition, Vol. 08 of 09. The etext of that book clearly displays all the bibliographic record, publishing history, and the etext is properly paginated. The student can pinpoint the page where the quotes were taken on his or her academic paper. I ask you that you download the etext through the link below and have a look carefully:

http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/49008
I have given you examples of messy, unproofed, uncorrected version of The Works of William Shakespeare, Volume 09, provided by the Internet Archive. Please, please, compare that example with the etext of volume 08 of the same edition. I think LV volunteers really should do something. Sorry if I hurt your feelings, Elizabby, but regarding the matter about the availability of Shakespeare on PG, I cannot agree. To be honest, I think the work is still incomplete. So, I plead again. Please, LV volunteers, join PGDP as volunteers and members, and please spread the word about Project Gutenberg and Distributed Proofreaders to your friends, family, coworkers, etc.
And I also think that visiting and reading these Internet Sacred Text Archive document encoding standards might be helpful:
https://sacred-texts.com/stand.htm
Here, even on this site, John B. Hare writes that Internet Sacred Text Archive(ISTA)-produced etexts should have all bibliographical record, title page, etc. visible, and they should be paginated on every file as well. My belief is that we, the people, regardless of each one's disability, country of origin, political beliefs, ethnicity, mother tongue, should be able to download EVERY volume of the Cambridge Edition of Shakespeare's Works, 9-volume set, in its entirety, published in 1866, whenever, wherever an individual reader may live. Everyone should have a high-quality, scholarly edition of all the writings of William Shakespeare. The Works of Shakespeare 9-volume set was completed in 1866, and it's now 2019! I cannot accept and go on my life if a blind or deafblind person gets blocked from accessing even just one volume of Shakespeare's Works. Currently, as you may know, the ninth (and also the last) volume of Shakespeare's Works: Cambridge Edition is not accessible to blind and deafblind people. WE MUST END THIS ABSURD SITUATION RIGHT NOW!!!!!

mightyfelix
Posts: 4284
Joined: August 7th, 2016, 6:39 pm

Post by mightyfelix » October 7th, 2019, 9:31 pm

Rita, I can tell that you feel strongly about this, and rightly so. I agree that these texts should all be accessible, and the last thing that I want to do is to appear insensitive to this problem. Still, I'd like to address a few things that I think may be misunderstandings.
rita1075 wrote:
October 7th, 2019, 7:45 pm
There *is* something, nay, there *are* MANY things LibriVox volunteers can do about the unavailability of Shakespeare's Works, Cambridge Edition Volume 09 on Project Gutenberg.
The first thing LibriVox volunteers can, and should do is to join as volunteers for Distributed Proofreaders website.
Yes, LV volunteers can do this. But I don't agree that they necessarily should. Every hour spent by a LV volunteer proofing texts for PG is one hour less making audiobooks. Both contribute to accessibility, and I believe both are important. Different people may have different opinions as to which one is more important, but those are simply opinions.

In addition, someone who is great at making audiobooks might turn out to be awful at making ebooks. Or perhaps they find that they're not bad at it, but they hate the process. Should they be obligated to do that, instead of making the audiobooks they enjoy?
Among 9400 or so volunteers, 140 of LV volunteers can join the PGDP as members and volunteers, and they can begin digitizing and proofreading the Cambridge Edition of Shakespeare's Works Volume 09 RIGHT AWAY! Then, each of those 140 volunteers can spread the word about Project Gutenberg and Distributed Proofreaders, and they can link to my post. Or, if there is an LV SiteAdmin among those 140 volunteers, s/he can also post my proposal on the LV blog page.
This, I think, is the biggest misunderstanding we seem to be dealing with. The fact of the matter is that we simply do not have this kind of manpower. Nowhere near it, in fact. It's true that LV audiobooks have been created by about 9400 volunteers, but the vast majority of them are no longer active. Some of them joined up, made one recording, and disappeared. Some of them are deceased. Some of them were very active, but then their lives got busier with school and work and family, and they were not able to devote time to LV anymore. I don't know how many active volunteers we currently have, but I would guess that it's much closer to the 140 figure that you suggest should join DP. I'm sorry, but there just aren't that many of us.

Again, I sympathize with your frustration. Compared to the number of scanned texts available at archive.org and a few other places, PG has a tiny fraction of books available. And scanned texts are certainly inaccessible to people who are blind or deaf-blind. I agree that the situation should change. I just don't know if you've found the right pool of people to recruit from.

Still, perhaps this discussion will move a few more people to sign up to help at DP/PG. *smile*

Cori
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Post by Cori » October 10th, 2019, 12:47 pm

It's nice to have you back here, Eunah, we've spoken here a little before. *waves and smiles*

I used to be a Distributed Proofreader, but just enjoy LibriVox more. *grins* However, I hope someone who still crosses between the two might pass these suggestions on to DP. It does takes training and practice to do some of the work of getting books into Project Gutenberg, so even if LibriVoxers volunteered, it would still need many people from DP as well to help.
There's honestly no such thing as a stupid question -- but I'm afraid I can't rule out giving a stupid answer : : To Posterity and Beyond!

KevinS
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Post by KevinS » October 10th, 2019, 1:34 pm

This discussion is very interesting to me. If I understand correctly, having a correct text version of a book allows a usable braille version to be produced. Is that right?
7 Dec: I have lost my voice. (Can you believe it?!) I'll still be PLing, however, so lay it on.

rita1075
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Post by rita1075 » October 21st, 2019, 1:28 am

Hello,
KevinS, you're right. If you got an accurate, high-quality reproduction of any of the books I have listed in the initial post, you can simultaneously produce an error-free braille version for each of those ebooks. However, NONE of the books I have listed in my initial post is available as plain text or HTML files. More importantly, those book image files which are on the Internet Archive or Google Books are useless for deafblind or totally blind people, and the txt files provided on the Internet Archive is unproofed, raw OCR-ed, concatenated text.
I ask here, after almost two weeks passed, why hasn't ANY siteadmin post my request on the LV blog? I ask you, again, that a siteadmin post my proposal to the LV blog. Before the month of October passes. PLEASE!

rita1075
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Post by rita1075 » October 21st, 2019, 1:50 am

Regarding the ebook accessibility issues for the blind and the deafblind
)A PM previously sent to mightyfelix)

I thought of ways to represent my country's blind citizens and the blind population in general, and have also waited for LV siteadmins to spread my proposal. However, NONE of those things are happening as of now, so, I am compelled to repost my PM to mightyfelix in this thread. PLEASE, DO SOMETHING! PLEASE, EVERYONE, SPREAD MY PROPOSAL!!!!!

Regarding the ebook accessibility issues for the blind and the deafblind

Hello, I am Eunah Choi, a.k.a. rita1075.
I would like to share some additional thoughts about the ebook accessibility issues for blind and deafblind people, and if I posted this on public forums, it might look like a personal attack, or unpleasant to some folks, so, I decided to send my thoughts as a PM.
Regarding my proposal to LV volunteers to join PGDP as volunteers and members, mightyfelix wrote:
"Yes, LV volunteers can do this. But I don't agree that they necessarily should. Every hour spent by a LV volunteer proofing texts for PG is one hour less making audiobooks. Both contribute to accessibility, and I believe both are important. Different people may have different opinions as to which one is more important, but those are simply opinions.
In addition, someone who is great at making audiobooks might turn out to be awful at making ebooks. Or perhaps they find that they're not bad at it, but they hate the process. Should they be obligated to do that, instead of making the audiobooks they enjoy?"

mightyfelix, you have pointed out my mistake about the number of LV volunteers, and I apologize. And it is a natural thing, as an LV volunteer, to say that "Every hour spent by a LV volunteer proofing texts for PG is one hour less making audiobooks. Both contribute to accessibility, and I believe both are important." I, too, thought about that. Of course, ebooks and human-narrated audiobooks offer many benefits to many people in underserved communities or populations, e.g. the illiterate, prisoners, low-income area school students, and people with blindness, dyslexia, or deafblindness. However, I still cannot agree and accept the following sentence written by you:

"Different people may have different opinions as to which one is more important, but those are simply opinions."
You are right that different people have different opinions, but I cannot agree with the part that "Those are simply opinions". NO! It is *not* an opinion, it is an issue that needs to be resolved as soon as possible. I think that a vivid description of this big issue of ebook inaccessibility for blind people has to be shown directly. So, I link the following article from The June 2012 Issue of Braille Monitor, a magazine published by The National Federation of The Blind(NFB, www.nfb.org
). The title of the article is "Is Reading a Privilege?" and every time I encounter an ebook or website that's inaccessible to blind or deafblind people, I literally would like to scream that title to every government official.
** Is Reading a Privilege?
(Braille Monitor, June 2012)
https://nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm12/bm1206/bm120608.html
If the above article still does not convince you to make all the so-called "book pictures" accessible to the blind and the deafblind people right now,I mean, RIGHT NOW as plain text and HTML ebooks, consider this statistic: there are only 45 Library-of-Congress-certified braille music transcribers in the US. You can verify this by visiting the NFB(National Federation of the Blind) website link:
https://www.nfb.org/braille-initiative
When you follow the above link, you can watch several videos of blind people speaking about the importance of braille.
That's why I insist on converting ebooks available only in jpg or gif image files on The Internet Archive to carefully proofread, formatted etexts and upload them to Project Gutenberg. Human-read audiobooks from LibriVox give listeners a motivation to start learning to read or make the person interested in new subjects or fields of study. They are all useful
and meaningful benefits. However, for me, ebooks available on Project Gutenberg as plain text and HTML files offer even more benefits. Here are a few that come to my mind:
01. The file size is smaller, and it requires less disk space or network speed, compared to so-called "book pictures"(books only available as jpg, gif or other image files) and audiobooks. I am not making judgments about LV or any other audiobook narration efforts, this is simply a statement of fact.
02. It enables a deafblind person to read books. As for audiobooks and "Book pictures", they are not accessible to a totally deaf, totally blind person. People who have some limited hearing ability but totally blind might find listening to audiobooks a struggling task. "Book pictures" are useless for both blind and the deafblind people.
03. With plain text and HTML etexts on PG, people can do whatever they like with the books. For example, they can cut/copy and paste parts of an ebook, adapt scripts (in the case of plays), etc.
Can you do the same thing with so-called "Book pictures" from The Internet Archive?
04. PG does not require any log-ins or passwords. The only rule they keep emphasizing is NOT to click on MegaUpload links on individual ebook pages and NOT to use web robots too much.
05. PG automatically generates epub files based on HTML versions of its ebooks. epub was derived from the DAISY format, a special format designed for dyslexic and learning-disabled people.
06. Lastly, public domain books on PG don't (and didn't) have any DRM on it.
Therefore, I think PG ebooks offer the greatest benefit to the widest variety of people.
Sorry if I hurt your feelings, but please read my message, and more importantly, The Braille Monitor article carefully, and imagine that one of your close friends is in the same situation described in the article. I plea to you, beg you, to take this matter seriously and post my proposal on the LV blog.
Thank you.
Sincerely,
Eunah Choi

rita1075
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Post by rita1075 » October 21st, 2019, 2:10 am

To each (and ALL) LV volunteers,
Even if my post is unpleasant or otherwise offensive, you cannot deny the MANY, MANY, MANY more benefits of Project Gutenberg ebooks, especially after reading those two posts by the late Michael S. Hart, the founder and the inventor of Project Gutenberg. Please read those two posts with care, and they will contain every essence of why PG ebooks are superrior to everyone.
Those posts can be found on The Book People Mailing List Archive.

01. "eBooks" vs "Digital Picture Books


From: Michael Hart <hart@[redacted]>

Post URL: http://onlinebooks.library.upenn.edu/webbin/bparchive?year=2007&post=2007-11-30,5

02. Farewell to "The Book People List"


From: Michael Hart <hart@[redacted]>

Post URL: http://onlinebooks.library.upenn.edu/webbin/bparchive?year=2007&post=2007-11-30,7


Please, everyone, I am screaming from the top of my lungs, EVERYONE, either join as PGDP volunteers, or post my proposal on the LV blog, or, at the very least, SPREAD THE WORD!!!!!

rita1075
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Post by rita1075 » October 21st, 2019, 7:26 am

Hello, I am Eunah.
Still no response yet to my posts today? Then, I have to write another post in this thread. PLEASE, PLEASE, imagine that you or your family member is a totally blind, totally deaf person, just like Helen Keller, and the only option for reading particular books is to download large-sized audio files and push the Play button on one's computer, then never being able to hear a thing!
Here, I link another blog post, this time from an organization called Bookshare(www.bookshare.org). The URL of this blog post can be found here:
https://blog.bookshare.org/2010/07/is-braille-now-optional/
The title of the above blog post is: "Is Braille Now Optional?". And, regarding that question, I say, ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!!!!!!!!
The post itself is informative, incisive and thoughtful at the same time, but I think LV volunteers should read all the comments below the original post as well. Especially, please have a look at a comment written by a guy named cannona. He seems to be cynical of those people who prefer not to teach braille to the blind people and substitute braille reading with audio listening. The guy, cannona, goes so far as this:

"The next thing you know, they’ll be calling students who fall asleep in class “passive learners.”"

See what I mean?
For us, blind people, braille, those seven dots, are NOT, and WILL NEVER, be optional. It is a requirement.
Please read another article from an NFB(National Federation of The Blind)-issued magazine, this time, a magazine named "Future Reflections". The title of the article is: "Why do you want to make that child blind?"
The article can be found here:
https://actionfund.org/images/nfb/publications/fr/fr33/2/fr330203.htm
Blind children and adults, regardless of their field of vision or the severity of one's blindness, SHOULD, ABSOLUTELY, be taught braille. And, I ask you, all LV volunteers, seriously. Why should we, blind people, be represented as just passive listeners of audiobooks? Why should blind teenagers or adults be denied an equal opportunity for participating in LV recording? WHY? WHY? WHY?
I am fed up with this inaccessible system. PLEASE, ALL OF YOU, ALL OF YOU, SPREAD THE WORD!!!!!!!!!! And to LV siteadmins, I repeatedly ask you, please post my request to the LV blog.

david wales
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Post by david wales » October 21st, 2019, 10:59 am

Hello Eunah, May I put in a personal perspective here? I do so admire your passion and your caring. You make me want to help. But here is where reality steps in, at least for me and I suspect lots of librivoxers. In my mid-seventies I no longer have the energy and mental acuity to do so much that I care about, stuff that in my twenties and thirties I would have just added on and launched myself into. The requirements of daily living are not as easy as they used to be and health issues limit activity. I have enough focus and energy to record for librivox at my own pace, especially now that I have got my process down to a routine. But even in that recording I am no longer as efficient or as fleet as I used to be. I hope that you find volunteers who can join you in your passion. It's more than a worthy cause.
Peace, David

rita1075
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Post by rita1075 » October 21st, 2019, 6:37 pm

To LV siteadmins, I repeatedly ask you, please post my request to the LV blog.

Why is any siteadmin not listening to my plea? Why? Please, give me a satisfactory answer. Until then, I don't have any choice but to post repeatedly about my initial proposal for the ebook conversion for PG.

ej400
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Post by ej400 » October 21st, 2019, 6:39 pm

rita1075 wrote:
October 21st, 2019, 6:37 pm
To LV siteadmins, I repeatedly ask you, please post my request to the LV blog.

Why is any siteadmin not listening to my plea? Why? Please, give me a satisfactory answer. Until then, I don't have any choice but to post repeatedly about my initial proposal for the ebook conversion for PG.
The siteadmins aren't always online. We're all volunteers here and sometimes things take a little bit of time to reply too. :D <smile>

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