PD sounds

Peter Why · Post by **Peter Why** » February 7th, 2019, 11:29 pm

There are occasions when a sound (or sometimes music) would be helpful in one of our recordings ... this seems to be especially true for our dramatic readings. The main objection that I've seen to sounds being included is that there may be copyright problems if we use a sound that's been made available on the internet.

There's an LV project running at the moment where the (apparently ghostly) sound of drumming is often referred to within the story, but the drumming recordings available online were felt to be chancy to use.

We must have someone among us who would be able to record a short burst of drumming sounds. And there must be lots of other minor sounds which we could make available in this way.

We already accept songs where the music is known to be PD, or that have been composed by the reader and placed in the public domain (I've done a few of these myself).

I remember that one of us, years ago (his first name was Stefan, I think), started to do this and eventually moved off site to create an online collection of PD sounds. I don't know what happened to that collection. Would it be worth our making our own PD sounds available for our recordings?

Peter

tovarisch · Post by **tovarisch** » February 8th, 2019, 12:06 pm

It's a good idea, but a slippery slope, I'm afraid. Would a "street noise" or "crowd noise" recorded today somewhere, be accepted? Or should the producer ask a signed release from everybody possibly audible in that recording? So, anybody contributing needs to be very careful lest they wade into a swamp of legal issues... But its a good idea.

Post by **mightyfelix** » February 8th, 2019, 12:31 pm

I think we would be rather particular about what kinds of noises are involved. And it's not as if anyone is looking to add sound effects to every minute of their recording. We're not producing radio dramas, we're producing audio books, and we want to stay true to that.

That being said, there are occasionally works which draw close attention to a particular sound. In those instances, I think it would be appropriate to add it in at strategic moments.

Crowd noises are probably not necessary, especially for dramatic readings. You can blend a nice crowd noise from your readers if need be.

smike · Post by **smike** » February 8th, 2019, 1:35 pm

Personally, I hate background noise (i.e. sound) in audio books. I'm really happy they aren't allowed in LV recordings.

JayKitty76 · Post by **JayKitty76** » February 8th, 2019, 4:35 pm

The only 'sound effect/background music' I've heard on LV is on the podcasts. I could be wrong, though (definitely don't quote me on that!). I actually prefer no background music or effects or anything in the audiobooks. I think that audiobooks vs radio dramas are two different things, like Devorah mentioned, and even in the DRs it is not a radio drama. I think that we are well off not adding music or effects, since that takes away from the words and story of the book.
(That's just my personal opinion- really, it's the admin team's call.

)

Best,
JayKitty

Post by **annise** » February 8th, 2019, 5:04 pm

Personal opinions are irrelevant on LV.
The admin team have spoken several times, it's in the policy. Unless it's a "music" project like the Christmas carols, you can only use something you are producing yourself and you are composing and you are releasing into the PD if the text calls for it and the BC feels they need to.
To paraphrase our founder - does it enhance our prime directive? - and the answer is no.

Anne
It would be such fun to create a BBC radio play - I'd forgotten about them but found them recently on Archive, but that's not what we are about.

Peter Why · Post by **Peter Why** » February 9th, 2019, 12:54 am

I accept the general opinion expressed here but, for me, occasional sounds add to the texture and intensity of a reading. So if I ever record something that seems to need this, I will create a second recording with the sounds, to go independently on archive.org.

EDIT: I would have loved to hear the faint, fading, intricate sound of a flute around the outro of The Piper At The Gates Of Dawn in The Wind In The Willows.

Peter

Post by **mightyfelix** » February 9th, 2019, 1:48 am

I'm guessing that if one was to do that, they'd need to remove the LV disclaimer? Or no?

Peter Why · Post by **Peter Why** » February 9th, 2019, 1:55 am

Not if I was playing the flute, extemporising.

Or, if you're referring to the post before, if I put one of my recordings, plus sound effects, on archive.org, of course I'd remove reference to LV in the recording, but I'd mention the duplication in a text summary.

Peter

Post by **mightyfelix** » February 9th, 2019, 11:08 am

Peter Why wrote: ↑February 9th, 2019, 1:55 am Or, if you're referring to the post before, if I put one of my recordings, plus sound effects, on archive.org, of course I'd remove reference to LV in the recording, but I'd mention the duplication in a text summary.

Peter

Yes, that is what I was asking. Thank you! Makes perfect sense.

Post by **chocoholic** » February 10th, 2019, 11:45 am

Peter Why wrote: ↑February 9th, 2019, 12:54 am So if I ever record something that seems to need this, I will create a second recording with the sounds, to go independently on archive.org.

Yes! This is exactly what we've suggested in the past (it's also in our Wiki on the Music and Sound Effects page). We put the plain vanilla version on the LV website, and we can mention the non-LV sound effects version in the catalog summary.

I'm not sure how many people have taken up this suggestion, but it has always seemed a good compromise to me. Giving listeners the choice is a good thing too; I am another who doesn't care for sound effects in a reading.

Basquetteur · Post by **Basquetteur** » March 9th, 2019, 10:30 am

Hi

I am not a reader, just a cover maker, so perhaps I should not intervene here, but I wonder if simple very short sounds i.e. three simple notes or a triad could not be used as separators in between disclaimers and intros or outros. I would guess producing them or simply reusing them from PD repositories or libraries of such simple sounds, could be possible for a PD work. A simple google search has taken me to soundbible.com . Most of the sound bits there are released with creative commons or only for personal use licences, but there are also some PD. I find them most too long from what I was thinking of about 1, 2 or 3 seconds. But they could be cut down. My suggestion would be for something even simpler and more neutral.
Cheers,
Basquetteur

ej400 · Post by **ej400** » March 9th, 2019, 3:32 pm

I just have a thought about this: If someone were reading a book, they wouldn't hear the drumming noise would they? They would imagine it. So for us to be just reading the text, wouldn't the listener still be able to imagine the drumming noise? Books don't have the noise playing, and so the reader has to imagine it playing. I understand this is audio though, but aren't we supposed to just read the text as it is without inserting other things, (like other words to replace possibly offensive words).

Post by **TriciaG** » March 9th, 2019, 3:54 pm

I wonder if simple very short sounds i.e. three simple notes or a triad could not be used as separators in between disclaimers and intros or outros.

No.

Some older recordings have such things, but it was nixed years ago.

Post by **mightyfelix** » March 9th, 2019, 6:09 pm

ej400 wrote: ↑March 9th, 2019, 3:32 pm I just have a thought about this: If someone were reading a book, they wouldn't hear the drumming noise would they? They would imagine it. So for us to be just reading the text, wouldn't the listener still be able to imagine the drumming noise? Books don't have the noise playing, and so the reader has to imagine it playing. I understand this is audio though, but aren't we supposed to just read the text as it is without inserting other things, (like other words to replace possibly offensive words).

For books, you are correct. And I don't know if this discussion ever really come up for books. But for plays, it's a bit different. They were not intended to be read, they were intended to be performed. So the audience would hear and see everything. For these projects, we're able to do quite a lot with our voices that you might not encounter in a book. For instance, when a character speaks off stage, many volunteers will record further away from the mic so that it sounds a bit muffled or far off. We may use kissing noises, drinking/slurping/eating noises, hiccups, etc. I think this discussion is related to that, but it's just that there are certain noises that aren't made vocally/orally.

The question is whether it would be worthwhile for volunteers here to begin compiling a few sound effects that we can be certain are PD and can be used for future LV projects. I'd be in favor of the idea, personally.