Commercial Use of Librivox Recordings

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miketheauctioneer
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Post by miketheauctioneer » July 6th, 2018, 12:47 pm

As the audio book market explodes, a cottage industry of removing the Libravox disclaimers from recordings and posting them for sale on commercial sites has emerged. This is legal, since our works are in the public domain. It does however; discourage narrators from doing work here. A pirated project can earn up to $20.00 per copy sold for the individual publishing it.

I would like to record again for Libravox, but I have a problem when my work is sold and I'm not paid for it.

Placing a watermark such as "this is a librivox recording" within each chapter under the actual recording would would make it cpmmercially unviable yet a small price to pay for a free audio book.

Thanks, Mike Vendetti
Mike Vendetti
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tovarisch
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Post by tovarisch » July 6th, 2018, 1:19 pm

Mike,

Envy is not compatible with volunteer work.

Were you paid for LibriVox recordings before? Have your recordings become unavailable?

So, what's changed? Nothing, really, if you care to think of it, except that you are bothered that somebody manages to get some money out of your work without sharing with you. :roll:
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Post by TriciaG » July 6th, 2018, 1:36 pm

I've seen your discussion about this on Facebook. On first reading, I admit I thought, "here we go again - another discussion on others profiting from what we give away." But if there's something simple we can do, it doesn't hurt to explore it.

What do you mean by a "watermark"? Could you post a small example into the xx-Nonprojects folder?

Would this be something newbies could easily do, or would it have to be something that the BCs or others would need to do (adding another whole layer to the workflow)? How would it work from the technical side?
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Post by TriciaG » July 6th, 2018, 1:36 pm

Oh, and moving this to a more appropriate form than the "Introduce Yourself" one. I'll figure out which one as I'm doing it. ;)
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Post by annise » July 6th, 2018, 3:20 pm

We send 1 file to Archive to process - would it make Archive reject it ? Or refuse to make other formats , And would the other formats have the "watermark" ?

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Post by miketheauctioneer » July 6th, 2018, 5:36 pm

Hi Tricia,
This is a link to a quick sample I did of a watermark. https://soundcloud.com/user-892733828/untitled-session-1-mixdown

If a pirate were to remove the watermark, they would also remove part of the recording.

I use a DAW with multitrack capability and record the watermark on a seperate track. It then becomes part of the mp3 file when I do a mixdown. I don't think this needs to be a requirement for all recordings, only an option for those who don't want to see others proffiting from their work.

Just a possible solution without getting into copyright fights.

Thanks, Mike
Mike Vendetti
Audio Book Publisher, Auctioneer, Narrator
http://www.mikevendetti.com
Florence, CO USA

TriciaG
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Post by TriciaG » July 6th, 2018, 5:46 pm

OK, the watermark occurs at about 0:38-0:40.

I can't understand either the text or the watermark audio. :? And would this really stop someone from selling the recording - a 2-second garble?

I wonder if a 2-second "this is a free recording from Librivox.org", not at the same time as the text and placed somewhat randomly in the recording, would be more effective. Yes, it'd be easier to cut out, but they'd have to listen to a good chunk of it to find it. And if they didn't, it's a clear reference back to LV and the free-ness of the audio.

People would complain about it, no doubt. It's a cost/benefit discussion.
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Post by miketheauctioneer » July 6th, 2018, 5:51 pm

annise wrote:
July 6th, 2018, 3:20 pm
We send 1 file to Archive to process - would it make Archive reject it ? Or refuse to make other formats , And would the other formats have the "watermark" ?

Anne
Hi Anne,
What is uploaded is an mp3 file that is no different than what us normally uploaded. You can hear the watermark here. https://soundcloud.com/user-892733828/untitled-session-1-mixdown

Mike
Mike Vendetti
Audio Book Publisher, Auctioneer, Narrator
http://www.mikevendetti.com
Florence, CO USA

miketheauctioneer
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Post by miketheauctioneer » July 6th, 2018, 5:57 pm

TriciaG wrote:
July 6th, 2018, 5:46 pm
OK, the watermark occurs at about 0:38-0:40.

I can't understand either the text or the watermark audio. :? And would this really stop someone from selling the recording - a 2-second garble?

I wonder if a 2-second "this is a free recording from Librivox.org", not at the same time as the text and placed somewhat randomly in the recording, would be more effective. Yes, it'd be easier to cut out, but they'd have to listen to a good chunk of it to find it. And if they didn't, it's a clear reference back to LV and the free-ness of the audio.

People would complain about it, no doubt. It's a cost/benefit discussion.
Hi Tricia,
That is a possibility, or even a female voice. And you are right about the cost/benefit.
Mike Vendetti
Audio Book Publisher, Auctioneer, Narrator
http://www.mikevendetti.com
Florence, CO USA

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Post by Elizabby » July 6th, 2018, 8:27 pm

In terms of watermarking or putting in random LV disclaimers into the body of the text - I'd be interested in doing that in my solo works. It seems to be the solos that are targeted for commercial use. I think it would be nice to offer soloists the option*.

I don't think this is about envy. I don't need or expect money from my LV work. I just want what I placed in the PD to stay there! It's about the effort I made to make something which should be free, and someone else using my work to rip off the unknowing consumer.



*But then, I also think it would be nice to offer soloists the option to use a CC-NC licence. Legamus does it, and Gutenberg Press also has a variety of licences now. When LV started there were no other options, but now there are, and I think it would encourage soloists particularly to allow them at least the option to protect their work from commercial exploitation. In terms of encouraging LV's core goals, I would have thought encouraging readers to continue to record solos and to offer them some options for protecting their work (which costs LV nothing) would be very much in harmony with LV's founding ethic.
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Post by annise » July 6th, 2018, 11:32 pm

Before answering , it does annoy me too , particularly Audible's usage . And I was getting so annoyed about my coverart turning up everywhere that I started making a longer LV "trademark" so anyone tring to remove it had at least to work harder to get rid of it. If anyone does add bits to recordings please leave me your email address and I'll forward all the error reports and complaints I get for you to answer.

First think we'd need to be clear about is who we want to stop - do we want to stop the person putting them on disc and selling them ?

And the ap maker who sets up his own website and database to give direct phone access to listeners and charges a small price to cover the hosting and bandwith cost

And all the youtube people who have ads with their videos and do or don't (I've met both) fail to mention the source
Or Audible ?

And then we would have to decide how we were going to police it.
So I suspect we need to put up with it . Maybe it's like donating to a Salvation Army Appeal, I don't stop donating because there are people who milk the system.
But I will never subscibe to Audible

Anne

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Post by tovarisch » July 7th, 2018, 4:32 am

Elizabby (emphasis mine) wrote:
July 6th, 2018, 8:27 pm
...
I don't think this is about envy. I don't need or expect money from my LV work. I just want what I placed in the PD to stay there! It's about the effort I made to make something which should be free, and someone else using my work to rip off the unknowing consumer.
Are you saying that what you placed in PD does not stay there? Is it not free still? It is the consumer's responsibility to avoid wasting money on something that is also available for free. You can help that by informing the consumer.

If the effort that you're discussing here is about preventing other people from getting paid for what they take from PD and re-package, then the morality of it is just as bad. PD means free. Free for everybody to do as they wish with it, including trying to get money out of it.

If the effort is to inform the consumer by sticking our disclaimer all over the recording, then we're reducing the quality the product in the process... Cutting off the nose to spite the face.

We come back to this subject over and over again, and it's pointless. Some of us here aren't ready to do PD work as much as needed by LV, apparently. Sad.
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Post by lurcherlover » July 7th, 2018, 9:55 am

It has occurred to me that maybe all solo work (if the creator wanted) could be placed onto Audible/ACX as well as LV, by the original creators which might put the pirates off, especially if the proper version were available as well. It's a lot of work I know to get things on Audible/ACX but it could be a way of reducing the attraction of others stealing the readings for their own profit.

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Post by miketheauctioneer » July 7th, 2018, 10:28 am

tovarisch wrote:
July 7th, 2018, 4:32 am
Elizabby (emphasis mine) wrote:
July 6th, 2018, 8:27 pm
...
I don't think this is about envy. I don't need or expect money from my LV work. I just want what I placed in the PD to stay there! It's about the effort I made to make something which should be free, and someone else using my work to rip off the unknowing consumer.
Are you saying that what you placed in PD does not stay there? Is it not free still? It is the consumer's responsibility to avoid wasting money on something that is also available for free. You can help that by informing the consumer.

If the effort that you're discussing here is about preventing other people from getting paid for what they take from PD and re-package, then the morality of it is just as bad. PD means free. Free for everybody to do as they wish with it, including trying to get money out of it.

If the effort is to inform the consumer by sticking our disclaimer all over the recording, then we're reducing the quality the product in the process... Cutting off the nose to spite the face.

We come back to this subject over and over again, and it's pointless. Some of us here aren't ready to do PD work as much as needed by LV, apparently. Sad.
A professional audio book narrator averages $300.00 per finished hour. I have over 400 titles for sale on Audible and iTunes, and earn a nice income from my work. I don't mind putting work on Libravox as long as it remains my property that I can also sell. A watermark under the recording makes it commercially unviable. I would be willing to give Libraxox a watermarked version of a recording that they can put into the PD while I put the unmarked version on Audible.

To put this discussion into perspective, as a publisher I have paid narrators five figures for a single quarter's royalties from Audible.
Mike Vendetti
Audio Book Publisher, Auctioneer, Narrator
http://www.mikevendetti.com
Florence, CO USA

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Post by kayray » July 7th, 2018, 1:20 pm

All librivox recordings are in the public domain. Please see:

https://wiki.librivox.org/index.php?title=Copyright_and_Public_Domain
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