Welcoming Newbies = Improving retention?

[carolb]

I agree with you on your first 10 points, Larry. However I differ in my thought on new volunteers, which we all were at some point. I believe the secret may be in taking one's time to read the forums to discover how things are done - what's available etc. and choosing for ourselves. There are poems (27), plays (18) and chapters in books (103) in a variety of languages. Newbies are blessed with a wealth of information in the links in the welcome e-mail. Phil's video link for example has a link at the bottom to all the videos, and with all the information in the world anything new requires patience. Isn't it a great feeling when we master some new challenge?

As for attracting volunteers, the strange and beautiful thing is that we have all arrived here without in-your-face advertising.

If you want to know how long any project takes you need only to look at the date of the first post in that thread
(Faust: Posted:: March 30th, 2008, 12:42 am)

Carol

[hallejk]

I agree with you both carol and Larry. I think however that even though the information is out there it's a little hard to find. I mean yes it's in the welcome email, but I feel like the welcome email should have a little more in it and be more direct... Let me sleep on it and I'll say more on the morning.

[carolb]

I think however that even though the information is out there it's a little hard to find. I mean yes it's in the welcome email

The welcome e-mail gives direction to all the necessary information, to be absorbed at leisure. Overloading it with a whole load of information in one go could be rather off-putting, I feel.

Carol

[moniaqua]

... a lot of thoughtful and interesting stuff.

especially
2. Personal encouragement along the way has been important in keeping me going, however.
I think number one is encouragement and recognition. Oh, did I say that already?

If you're incidentally active at DP-US, could you do me/them the favor and post that there in the general forum in discussion of general announcements? Some - important - people there still seem in need to hear that in order to internalize it

LibriVox' members are doing a lot to encourage people, and from my point of view they are doing a really, really great job.

Until now I found way more projects to read then I could reasonably do given the time I can spend. I have three sections claimed (and hope to record them today) and managed to throw the two last ones in just before deadline (uff) In about four months I did about almost 20 sections - and found I don't know how many I would love to read And I don't even do DPLing And, if I was a men, it would double with all the drama roles available

carol, I agree, I wouldn't overload the welcome-email. For my feeling it is already close on the edge to be overloaded. But, Hazel, I agree it could be re-designed to be more direct. Maybe it would even help to change the layout just a bit

[lubee930]

Your comments are very interesting, Larry, and quite to the point. I am going to try to be more mindful of acknowledging and recognizing the efforts of newcomers right away.

And as I've mentioned, I also found it difficult to find things when I first began (like Phil's videos). Is the information all there somewhere? Yes. But I will tell you that as a newcomer, it was not only challenging, but totally overwhelming to me. I finally stopped trying to find all the bits and pieces here and there, just searched out Phil's videos again (and I had to search around), and then started watching them--one after another, top to bottom, one by one--just to get an idea of what was involved here. (Maybe your suggestion, Larry, about a one-video overview of the recording process--maybe necessarily a bit longer than Phil's usual videos, maybe linked in the Welcome Email?--would be helpful to newcomers.)

And I can see how, Larry, some of the forum threads might be confusing for a newcomer. Again--if you stick around long enough, you finally figure it out. But could we make it easier? For instance, how about split the "Listeners and Editors Wanted" forum? Would it be possible to have one completely separate thread clearly and directly titled "1-Minute Test" for newcomers--and then have a separate thread clearly and directly titled "DPL's Wanted"--?

And I have just now (after 1 1/2 years as a member) come to enjoy and really appreciate some of our collections--I am DPL on one of them right now--they're great!! I see really intriguing suggestions for new collections in the forums--and I think that they can be a good option for newcomers' first recordings. But they are kind of hidden away, I think. (I always browsed Readers Wanted Books more, but Short Works much less.) I wish that there was a thread where all of Collections were clearly and directly titled so that they stood out and were easier for newbies to find. Anyway, just some thoughts about forum threads.

But here's the thing: If we are talking about ways to attract and retain new members, and if new users are telling us that it is difficult to find what they want, then let's try to think of ways to make it simpler! That seems like a no-brainer to me. Not just "We know it's challenging." I realize that time and funds would preclude some changes--but I still think that a survey could point us to some simple, very "doable" improvements that might be helpful.

[lubee930]

The problem I would see is that a more simplified set of instructions implies that there's only one way to do things here. And that's true for some areas, but not for everything. So a single video really can't do more than signpost people towards more specific information, which is done by the Video Listing page to some extent anyway.

Also, I like videos for some things, but I usually learn best by reading instructions and following them. The visual side either leaves me cold or distracts me with stuff that isn't relevant. I'm sure I'm not unique in that. There's already a sense of RTFM (or, Watch The Freaking Video) in some answers given. The videos are great, and the best option for the majority perhaps, but I don't want anyone to feel uncomfortable because that's not how they learn -- or because they can't see them! We do have vision-impaired and blind users, and transitioning away from offering wiki links that include both written and videoed instructions to a straight YouTube link for any question asked is, IMO, un-volunteer friendly. It's also harder for videos to change over time, whereas some of our best changes have come out of new discussions of a question that's been asked a dozen times before.


Perhaps there could be focused wiki pages, perhaps "New - never recorded", "New - and have done podcasts/recordings before", "New - haven't recorded or used a forum before", "New - not a native English speaker", "Returning - haven't LVed for years, anything changed?" and so on. One size doesn't fit all, and in trying to provide an overview for newcomers with radically different backgrounds and needs, of course there's going to be information provided that isn't relevant to the others. I don't know that a simple pruning or rearranging of information will cover it. I'm open to that too, but hope this can be expanding our support, not limiting it to those who fit within a certain newcomer demographic.

I really appreciate your comments, Cori. As a BC, I tend to direct newcomers to the videos just because they were so helpful to me. But I will try to be more diligent about giving newcomers other options as well. Thanks!

[Lynnet]

The problem I would see is that a more simplified set of instructions implies that there's only one way to do things here. And that's true for some areas, but not for everything. So a single video really can't do more than signpost people towards more specific information, which is done by the Video Listing page to some extent anyway.

Is it necessarily an 'either/or' situation? A set of instructions or video entitled "For The Absolute Novice", for example, would guide people like me through steps a, b and c to getting their first recording done, but tell those with some experience that it may be over-simplified for them. Additionally, providing links to other videos, the wiki etc. would help those with some basic idea of what they are doing, or the technically more savvy, or adventurous... and also tell those beginners who used the 'absolute novice' instructions where to go for help after they have been through the PL and been told they need tweaks, or if they just want to improve.
In my observation, most people are excited to get recording after (or even before...) their one minute test is approved. I think the sooner we get them recording successfully, the more likely we are to retain them... and having them hunt through videos and wikis for things they didn't even know they needed to know just isn't going to work (and I accept there are exceptions, and some weird people who research thoroughly before taking even a baby step )

[RuthieG]

Sounds good, Lynne.

Ruth

[MaryAnnSpiegel]

Just and fyi, Phil and I are watching this thread and I hope to work through some ideas with him for a few new videos. I like the "video for the absolute novice" idea - on a number of topics.

MaryAnn

[carolb]

Just a thought ... Those who feel that newcomers do not get the information they need can provide an immediate solution.
Just pop along to the New Here? Introduce Yourself! thread, leave your message there, and maybe strike up a conversation,
ask questions, give directions, whatever you think will be the best way forward.

Carol

[silverquill]

But on the plus side , it is an amazing place , producing amazing results - and a very cheap worthwhile hobby

Anne

Oh, yes it is indeed!

But, then it strikes me that Librivox is not an "it" but an "us!" All the technology and architecture is just the framework that we work on, but "we" are Librivox. All the little pieces and all the big pieces, the bit parts and the major roles are Librivox. So we can also say, "We are amazing people, producing amazing results!" I've not found the equal, and it is a privilege to be a small part of this remarkable group of people.

Anyway, I'll take a more careful look at what has been discussed here, with my newbie eyes, and see organizationally what worked for me and what didn't, recognizing that sometimes it is just my own obtuseness that makes things harder than they really are.

And, Carol, you are so right! I've tried a few times, but haven't had any responses. Still, those warm welcomes and outstretched hands are so important.

~Larry

[chocoholic]

Newbie eyes are very valuable, Larry! It can be hard for me to know how things look to a new person, since I was here during the evolution and growth.

Just another voice too saying I don't watch instructional videos for the most part --I prefer to learn by reading (no headphones required) and then experimenting on my own. I learn my way around a new town the same way: I look at a map to get the gist, then just start driving around to see what's where. So I'm a bit of a less-is-more person; general overview with links to more detailed information is my preference. This is just to say the same thing everyone else has: one approach does not fit all, so it's probably best that we have instructions in different formats.

[Lynnet]

There is a whopping great Librivideo graphic on the front page of the Wiki (which has a link from every page in the forum).

HOLY COW, how have I never noticed that link before?!?! That just made my life so much easier. Thanks RuthieG!!!!

I think that demonstrates part of the problem... there is such a sharp learning curve for many of us, and we are bombarded with information, we often don't see the wood for the trees. And I had a new reader who said "I thought it was just about reading books..."

[RuthieG]

And I had a new reader who said "I thought it was just about reading books..."

And, really, it is. But we have to have certain technical standards, otherwise the lovingly read recording will be unusable. It is no use reading a book absolutely beautifully if you are recording at such a low volume that you can't be heard or your voice is obliterated by background noise from the aquarium standing next to your computer. Such things are generally so easy to fix, and once fixed stay fixed. Hence the Newbie Guide to Recording and the one-minute test.

Furthermore, how many of us can read a page (let alone a whole chapter) without flubbing something (I can't), or the phone ringing, or the dog barking? So editing is going to be necessary. Again, not hard to do, but it will take time that perhaps some people don't bargain for.

I have looked at the Newbie Guide to Recording, and while it may appear to be daunting, I can't really see much that could be omitted without leaving out useful information.

If a thing is worth doing at all, it's worth doing properly. No-one expects perfection, but there is no point wasting your valuable time producing something that ends up unusable.

Ruth

[Oxenhandler]

It wasn't quite that, Julia. Unfortunately, we no longer have figures that we can break down in that way and the last ones I have were back in 2012. At that point, 107 readers accounted for 50% of all sections recorded. The 107th most prolific reader then had recorded 309 sections. The 20 most prolific readers accounted for 20% of all sections recorded. At that point also, about 2000 readers had recorded only one section, but if they hadn't recorded them, we wouldn't have had as many completed projects as we have now! So every one of those sections is valued .

However, as a section can be as little as a one minute poem, or as much as an hour of an obscure Latin text, the figures are really rather meaningless .

Ruth

"At that point [2012], 2000 readers had recorded only one section..." When one considers the preparation, expense, and time required to accomplish the successful upload of one PL approved section, one has to ask why 2000+ readers never recorded another section and what can be done to reverse the trend.

I contend there is a break in the feedback loop - at "PL okay!" There needs to be a relational hook for readers to come back. They have a strong desire to put themselves (their voice) out there and they need to know they're being heard. Otherwise, they don't stick around. It's why we calp and boo at the theater.