Welcoming Newbies = Improving retention?

[Carolin]

I contend there is a break in the feedback loop - at "PL okay!" There needs to be a relational hook for readers to come back. They have a strong desire to put themselves (their voice) out there and they need to know they're being heard. Otherwise, they don't stick around. It's why we calp and boo at the theater.

i had countless readers in group projects who submitted a file and got a pl note and never came back to do the edits. at the end of the project, i edited their file myself so that we could catalog. im guessing that other bcs have the same experiences, and that this story makes up a lot of the number.

i think that there are a lot of people who think that recording audiobooks is cool, but then they discover they hate editing. they recorded one section, struggled through editing, and then could never bring themselves to do it again. and thats ok, since this, as any hobby, is not for everyone.

[TriciaG]

I think part of it is that new readers don't realize how much work it is to record and edit. Yeah, they got their 1 section up, but it was much more work to edit than they had thought, and so maybe this wasn't what they thought it would be like.

I agree that PL's should be encouraging to newbies, but I wouldn't want to put the onus on them to (1) realize it IS a newbie, and (2) be pressured to gush when they aren't the gushing type. And let's face it - sometimes the only good, honest thing to say to some readers is "PL OK."

*cross-posted*

[RuthieG]

I took a random sample of those who recorded one section, and could see no pattern. A number were recording in English, some in other languages. Some came back to do their edits, some did not. Some never returned to claim another section. Some claimed another section but did not produce it.

I was expecting to find most one-sectioners to have recorded a very short poem, but this did not seem to be the case.

Curiously enough, the very first one I looked at received very positive and complimentary feedback on his section, thanked the PLer for it profusely - and never returned to read again. The PLer? Oxenhandler .

Incidentally, as well as the 2000 people who only read one section, there were also
800 who only read two,
500 who read three,
350 who read four,
250 who read five,
170 who read six,
130 who read seven,
and so on up the line until you get to the twenty or so people who recorded more than a thousand sections.

It either grabs you or it doesn't, I suppose.

Ruth

[tovarisch]

...Incidentally, as well as the 2000 people who only read one section, there were also
800 who only read two,
500 who read three,
350 who read four,
250 who read five,
170 who read six,
130 who read seven,
and so on up the line until you get to the twenty or so people who recorded more than a thousand sections. ...
Ruth

I wonder what the distribution is. Have you ever tried to make a graph of {readers} to {sections read}?

[Oxenhandler]

How many of those who submit a one minute test, go on to record a section?

My question is: How to increase the reader retention rate?

How 'bout... a new requirement or strong recommendation? Each newbie chooses a qualified available dedicated mentor from a list. A mentor runs a forum thread for his/her group of newbies. Within that group newbies listen to and critique one another's work. The mentor functions both as a hand-holder and a classroom teacher. As newbies begin to upload sections, the feed back loop continues for as long as the newbie wants to participate. Non participation after a set period of time results in nothing more than an open slot in the mentor's group.

I think this would go a long way toward achieving more PL okay! readers from 1-min test qualified readers and more PL okay! qualified readers recording multiple sections.

[TriciaG]

Honestly, I think your mentors would burn out pretty quickly. You'd have to have mentors who know a lot about technical things and the forum - those tend to be the people that are already doing 5 other things at the same time. I know that I burn out easily on just checking tests and walking through getting people's recordings sounding decent and with the correct tech specs. I'd burn out even more if I had to mentor people on top of that. (I'm not saying that I would have to do it, of course. But using me as an example, how many who check tests get tired of it and bow out for a while, and would burn out if they were in a mentoring situation?)

A volunteer who knows what they're doing - you, perhaps? - could try it and see how it goes before we talk about instituting another layer of complexity to the system.

[AdeledePignerolles]

I saw where someone checked a newbie's test, looked at what they said they were interested in in their introduction, and then gave them some project ideas. The new person picked one of those (by the same person who checked their test) and then went on to do more. Maybe if suggestions were given (i.e. "I see you like nature, why don't you check out...?") then they would have something they were interested in to read instead of going for something they'd never heard of and then discovering they hated it? Or, PLers could give editing tips when they are PLing newbie sections--I hated editing and it took forever until someone told me that you could mark the spots where the mistake was to find easily later by hitting the microphone. Then someone told me to do the PL notes from last to start--that made me even more excited. And when I just found out the way to fix your mistakes as you make them so that when you finish recording you're actually finished--that made it even better. Lots of people don't read the wiki--I didn't--so maybe just helpful tips from PLers seeing that someone's never had PL notes before?

[commonsparrow3]

Just judging from my own experience, there are already people here at LV who are "mentoring" us newbies, without needing to formalize the role. When I was new, I was very uncertain about technical things, and also about LV protocols and procedures. But everywhere I went, on every one of my early projects, there were MC's, BC's, and more experienced readers, all very willing to help me out of jams. For example, soloists are usually expected to be their own BC. But because I wasn't too sure about the MW and workflow issues, Lucretia kindly agreed to BC my first solo and show me what she was doing, so I'd be able to really go solo the next time around. That was assuredly service above and beyond the "usual". So I think the "mentoring" is already out there. It's just that it's available on an informal basis, with different people stepping into the gap according to who happens to be free at the moment. And as Adele said, even just the helpful tips we pick up from PL notes are a kind of casual mentoring.

As to why some people don't do a lot of recording, I think it's likely just not everyone's cup of tea. My dad, for example, has recorded only an occasional section, usually very brief bits, mainly because the technical issues of mic set-up and sound levels and editing are tiresome and not fun for him. It's not necessarily a bad thing that so many people become interested enough in what we're doing that they want to give it a try once or twice, even if they then decide it's not for them and give it up. Having made the attempt, and discovered how much work goes into it, they will very likely be more appreciative audiobook listeners ever afterwards!

[Oxenhandler]

Oh, TriciaG, Put your money where your mouth is, huh? Okay. I can commit to two hours a day for three months to mentor the group. I'm sure I'll have lots of questions for more experienced members.

Can you give me a forum thread under "New Here? Introduce Yourself!"? Can you name it "Join the Newcomer Group!" or "Mentor Group A (limit 10)"? or a name of your own devising. Uploaded files will have to be accessible there in order for members to listen to one another's sections. I am not interested in mentoring as an expanded form of proof listening; claps and boos must be allowed in my group. Ideally, the group members will feed off one another's enthusiasm and share information and support.

AdeledePignerolles, suggestions are a great idea.

commonsparrow3, what you said is true, mentoring happens all the time on librivox, if it didn't no one would be recording. My hope is to catch the chicks who fall from the nest.

[RuthieG]

This is a subject that has been running since 2007, so bear with me: I am just going to amalgamate all the discussion on it into one thread.

Look out soon for Welcoming Newbies = Improving retention?

Ruth

[J_N]

claps and boos must be allowed in my group.

Be careful with 'boos'... the one thing that I believe will deter people the most would be negative criticism... in the beginning you are still trying not to cringe when hearing your own voice and you doubt your ability enough as is... hearing someone else confirming your doubts would stop most people in their tracks...

[Oxenhandler]

Be careful with 'boos'... the one thing that I believe will deter people the most would be negative criticism... in the beginning you are still trying not to cringe when hearing your own voice and you doubt your ability enough as is... hearing someone else confirming your doubts would stop most people in their tracks...

Perhaps you could mentor the no negative criticism group.

It would be explicit in my group's introduction. The only thing worse than a boo, is silence.

I went to a school where only As and gold stars were dished out. I learned nothin' and had a lousy time.

[J_N]

Perhaps you could mentor the no negative criticism group.

Nah, neither time nor interest I think the informal mentoring that already happens is enough - for the rest people just have to have intrinsic motivation...

I am just saying, try to focus on what people do well in the beginning... at LV learning comes from experience which comes with time

[RuthieG]

I think I have caught all the posts on this subject (but knowing me, I have missed some). It is a lot to wade through, but over the years it has been an interesting discussion.

On a personal note, I can think of nothing worse than mentoring people. (I am a classic case of burn-out on test recordings advice. I cannot even bear to open the Listeners Wanted forum any more.)

Ruth

[Oxenhandler]

RuthieG, Nicely done. I'm not the first, good to know.

J_N, My guess is most of the 2000+ who drop out aren't that sensitive or are sensitive but not so easily put off, who are sensitive but improve with criticism and retreat from silence. My theory is there are two personality styles that are drawn here: librarians and actors and combinations of the two with one side dominant. The librarians are the readers who cringe at hearing their own voice but persist because they live in a world of shhhhush. The librarians do the brunt of the administrative work. The actors are the ones who leave because of the break in the feedback loop. The few actors who hang around are a blessing and produce the finest recordings. These are generalizations of course and describe no one in particular.

"Everywhere I go, I'm asked if I think the universities stifle writers. My opinion is that they don't stifle enough of them. There's many a best seller that could have been prevented by a good teacher."

-- Flannery O'Connor

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