Explicit Lyrics

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defscan
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Post by defscan »

I think that the texts containing racist words, should be specified as "containing n-words".

I appreciate listening to audiobooks, as I can work at home and discover books that I wouldn't read in the first place, mostly the literature of the 19th, in English.
one thing is noticeable between 1840 and 1960, it's that there was an obvious will to advertise flaws, like alcoholism, or racism with the constant mention of the "n word". These are not a problem when it is written, but becomes devastating when continually repeated.
The hip hop rappers have to stick "Explicit Lyrics" on their record, when they talk rough, so why couldn't LibriVox do the same, even for a Melville, a Mark Twain, H.G. Wells and other Conan Doyle, when they push people to the racist hate. I understand that it was part of a malign process and that they consider that the persons that will believe that, are people already inclined to be racist, and that all this is motivated by the "Only the strong will survive" of the Bible, but- as I've already said, it is different when told, than when read.
I personally 'bip' them with Audacity, as I can't let these great texts play with these bad words. However, without censoring the texts, a mention could be useful.
kukailimoku
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Post by kukailimoku »

Interesting thought, but that seems like there could be a can of worms there when the decision of what words are bad, doesn't it?

Maybe a broader disclaimer that, given the culture and language of the times, many stories contain language that is now considered offensive?
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tovarisch
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Post by tovarisch »

Disclaimer: this is my personal view.

While Librivox *could* do the same, I don't think Librivox should. Catering to personal preferences of individual listeners is not the goal and doesn't help accomplishing Librivox's ultimate goal, to make all PD books available in audio form. Whoever is offended by some text is free not to listen to it.

Works written more than a century ago are not at all like something composed very recently. The 19th century author could not have known what twists the society's views on the language should develop, whereas a rapper writes his lines now, perfectly aware of the new meanings and uses of certain words. So your comparison of H.G.Wells to a hip hop rapper just doesn't fly, sorry.
tovarisch
  • reality prompts me to scale down my reading, sorry to say
    to PLers: do correct my pronunciation please
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Post by Darvinia »

A lot of our catalogue works that contain potentially offensive terms do state that in the summary. It is not mandatory.
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carolb
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Post by carolb »

I am old enough to remember a soft doll, much loved by children which became a mascot for a famous jam company.
Sadly I never managed to collect enough whatever-was-needed to gain possession of one of the collectable enamel badges.

Do not read this recent article, or the ensuing comments if you are easily offended:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2902424/BBC-refuse-air-interview-black-history-campaigner-wearing-GOLLIWOG-doll-neck.html

It just goes to show how times - and language (and the interpretation of it) change!

Carol
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Post by BellonaTimes »

I usually put 'parental warning' notices in the summary on politically incorrect works I've recorded . But people need to realize that this kind of writing was commonplace as recently as the 1970's. Up to the early 60's especially. A friend of mine who is black just dismisses it as 'history' and ignores it, not in a self-hating way but as a matter of fact, like rolling your eyes any time Stepin Fetchit shows up in an old movie.
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annise
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Post by annise »

I think there are many more terrible things happening every day , probably in our own areas that need all of us to make efforts to stop. Putting cautionary notes on 150 year old stories is to my mind a cop out , Let's all try to change the world we live in now. Not things that happened in the past.

Anne
carolb
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Post by carolb »

annise wrote: Let's all try to change the world we live in now. Not things that happened in the past. Anne
:clap: Well said, Anne!

Carol
defscan
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Post by defscan »

tovarisch wrote:Works written more than a century ago are not at all like something composed very recently. The 19th century author could not have known what twists the society's views on the language should develop, whereas a rapper writes his lines now, perfectly aware of the new meanings and uses of certain words. So your comparison of H.G.Wells to a hip hop rapper just doesn't fly, sorry.
In the contrary, it totally fits, because H.G. Wells is the introduction to the "dime store mystery" magazines. It's not because they were living a hundred years ago, that the people were inconscient. H.G. Wells and Conan Doyle are only the starting points, in respectively the SciFi & Crime genres, of a great industrial project that now gives things like Marvel+D.C. comics. So Yeah, as igniters of the counter-culture, Doyle & Wells do really fly.
Besides, the writers know what power, the words have and were using the N-word to "fit and comfort". The literature of the XIXth has contrived to make the mentality change, in the two main subjects of women and black people: :9: Condoleezza Rice president :birthday:
annise wrote:I think there are many more terrible things happening every day , probably in our own areas that need all of us to make efforts to stop. Putting cautionary notes on 150 year old stories is to my mind a cop out , Let's all try to change the world we live in now. Not things that happened in the past.
The texts of the past, even two thousand years ago, are still constitutive of our present. Besides, the people are listening to it today, because LibriVox and Internet weren't working very well 150 years ago. So it's a simple thing to think about that can change a lot here, because hearing more than 10 times "N...." instead of "Black" in Moby Dick, is a rather painful thing, like a brain wash.

I don't mean to force people to censorship, but am stating here the fact that a written word is not the same as a said one, and the effect wanted by the author could be totally contrary in the latter, even more devastating than a caricatural image can be. I am not black, but have suffered the racism, being treated of "rital" and yes it's to us now to roll the eyes, each time we hear racist words(that are already outlaw in many coutries, by the way).
carolb
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Post by carolb »

Actually defscan, Librivox and internet weren't even apples in their fathers' eyes, but had they been the words would still have been used because they were by no means derogatory then.

Wikipedia: N... is a noun in the English language. The word originated as a neutral term referring to black people,[1] as a variation of the Spanish/Portuguese noun negro, a descendant of the Latin adjective niger ("color black")

So LV - had it been present then - would have read the words in the book, just as we do now.
There is no insult intended, but a recording of public domain books as they were written.

As toravisch pointed out, anyone is free not to listen in the first place, or to stop listening at the first word that upsets them.

I have no idea what a rital is, and google did not oblige with a meaning! Is it so bad that google is insulted? :shock:

Carol
Last edited by carolb on February 5th, 2015, 7:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
Carolin
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Post by Carolin »

defscan wrote:
tovarisch wrote:Works written more than a century ago are not at all like something composed very recently. The 19th century author could not have known what twists the society's views on the language should develop, whereas a rapper writes his lines now, perfectly aware of the new meanings and uses of certain words. So your comparison of H.G.Wells to a hip hop rapper just doesn't fly, sorry.
In the contrary, it totally fits, because H.G. Wells is the introduction to the "dime store mystery" magazines. It's not because they were living a hundred years ago, that the people were inconscient. H.G. Wells and Conan Doyle are only the starting points, in respectively the SciFi & Crime genres, of a great industrial project that now gives things like Marvel+D.C. comics. So Yeah, as igniters of the counter-culture, Doyle & Wells do really fly.
i see what you mean, but did you ever notice that while any respectable rap music cd has a big parental advisory sticker on it, all the books you mention do not?

i think we need to see every book in the historical context of the period when it was written and, if that is different, of the period in which it is set. 19th century authors portray their contemporary language very accurately, and taking out certain words would take this accuracy away from people today who are interested in this particular dimension of the books. uncle toms cabin and huckleberry finn wouldnt be quite the books they are if they were censored.

plus, i never understood the purpose of beeping words out anyway. is there anyone who is not able to guess exactly what is being said?

the bottom line is, there is no standard rule on this at librivox and i think we will not make a rule. the coordinator of each project decides to warn or not to warn, according to his/her own standards.
Carolin
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Post by Availle »

defscan wrote:... because hearing more than 10 times "N...." instead of "Black" in Moby Dick, is a rather painful thing, like a brain wash.
I am not entirely sure if you are referring to our version of Moby Dick. I have quickly checked the text source, and the word "Nigger" does not appear at all, and the word "Negro" exactly 24 times. (I am not discounting the possibility that our reader has inserted the word more often because he thought it would fit the plot better at places, but I find that rather unlikely.)

So, let me get this straight please: out of a novel consisting of 213624 words that took our reader 24 hours 37 minutes and 50 seconds to read (including the disclaimer), you are offended by 24 words (0.011234% of total words, not counting disclaimer here) that take less than 30 seconds (0.033833% of total time) to say.

Seriously?

Okay.
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carolb
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Post by carolb »

... and it was written in 1851.

Wikipedia again: [2] Often used disparagingly, by the mid 20th century, particularly in the United States...

Carol
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