Eradicate the "Disclaimer" [Thread Closed]

Comments about LibriVox? Suggestions to improve things? News?
ChristianPecaut
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Post by ChristianPecaut »

Stephan wrote:@ChristianPecaut
Boy, am i too angry to read or discuss this! You just pushed buttons and got ignored - wrong form to talk to people like this, people that would deserve at least some respect.
That metallic taste of fury admixed with horror at least proves you're alive.

Does anyone else get the creepy feeling that they are vomiting dirt into their own grave hole when recording?

Boy, I sure do.

Guess it's cuz I know too intimately who calls the shots at the Hewlett Foundation and Google -- and let's just say I wouldn't trust a soul racked athwart her most cherished book in their sticky globe-trotting fingertips.

They never let go, and they never forget.

You live? You die?

Eh, another donkey carcass...

Do all Librivox recordings go to heaven?

No.

How about without that lousy "disclaimer"?

Still no.

So what's the big deal, mister?

Yer talkin' to yourself again, Christian.

They don't get it.

Not many do.

There's a reason for that too.

Still, I know the silence underneath the fury holds everyone who could understand, if they got the chance.

Will they?

Don't look good to me, nope.

Yer gonna haffta speak up there, I have the worst headache.

Splitting, it's everywhere, on every thing, beginning, end, short, long.

That terrible ringing:

"This is a LibriVox recording."

No, nooo! I am not a Librivox recording.

How dare you?

"All LibriVox recordings are in the public domain."

Where? Who said so?

No!! I refuse. I refuse!

"For more information, or to volunteer, please visit librivox.org."

Please, make it stop.
Caeristhiona
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Post by Caeristhiona »

There's also the option of editing the disclaimer out after you download the files. I happen to agree with you that it gets annoying, so I do that myself when I download books to listen to on my own.

But god forbid you actually put some work into this on your own.
In my experience, nothing ruins a party like someone suddenly speaking Latin in reverse.
-- Jeffrey Rowland
Chrisczech
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Post by Chrisczech »

This thread reminds me of the times I have taken my children on trips.

"Are we there yet?"

"no!"

"Are we there yet?"

"no!"

"Are we there yet?"

"no!"

and so on ad infinitum.

"Remove the disclaimer."

"No."

In my opinion, all that is happening is a diversion from reading more literature. Counterproductive.
[url=http://librivox.org/idle_thoughts_of_an_idle_fellow_by_jerome_k_jerome/]Idle Thoughts Of An Idle Fellow[/url] / [url=http://librivox.org/the-triumphs-of-eugene-valmont-by-robert-barr]The Triumphs Of Eugene Valmont[/url]
Cori
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Post by Cori »

Chrisczech wrote:In my opinion, all that is happening is a diversion from reading more literature. Counterproductive.
Agreed!

Perhaps people might like to OffTopic properly in the Little Joke Thread and then back on with our main business of librivoxing*.


[* How long before that makes it into the dictionary..? Spread the meme! Record a disclaimer today! :lol:]
There's honestly no such thing as a stupid question -- but I'm afraid I can't rule out giving a stupid answer : : To Posterity and Beyond!
Caeristhiona
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Post by Caeristhiona »

Cori wrote:[* How long before that makes it into the dictionary..? Spread the meme! Record a disclaimer today! :lol:]
I feel that the disclaimer would be much improved by a made-up word. :) Maybe several!

Recorded at the hour of brillig, by Kirsten Ferreri...this recording is a portmanteau of verbiage, and has been thoroughly librivoxed with delight!
In my experience, nothing ruins a party like someone suddenly speaking Latin in reverse.
-- Jeffrey Rowland
Cori
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Post by Cori »

*dies laughing* And your Posts: 888 too. Nice!

So, that is the perfect disclaimer for Poetry from now on ... and how about this for regular book chapters..?

"This is a Librivox recording. All Librivox recordings are in the Public Domain. Read for librivox.org by a shy Librivoxer. Librivoxed on this 21st Day of January, 2007. If you think Librivoxing books, poems, short stories and plays for the public domain sounds cool, visit us at librivox.org where you can also get involved in librivoxing ballads, Gilbert and Sullivan and random forum posts."
There's honestly no such thing as a stupid question -- but I'm afraid I can't rule out giving a stupid answer : : To Posterity and Beyond!
ChristianPecaut
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Post by ChristianPecaut »

Caeristhiona wrote:There's also the option of editing the disclaimer out after you download the files. I happen to agree with you that it gets annoying, so I do that myself when I download books to listen to on my own.

But god forbid you actually put some work into this on your own.
Let's ally together and banish the cursed "disclaimer" once and for all then.

I never liked doing anything just for myself -- I can't enjoy the recording that I edit anyway, knowing that everyone else is still forced to listen to the "disclaimer" go-round.

I didn't dare hope that Caeristhiona the Fair would arrive to stand beside me under the dark clouds of my hatred for the "disclaimer".

I fell for you right when I got here, in some forum, for your Latin.

Despite the acrimony, my first discussion here at Librivox sure feels like the fairy tale treatment.

David first stepped out of the T'ang dynasty and into my thread, a Virgil for my too too smarrita selva oscura.

Then there was the terrifying dance of the Librivox Administration.

And now, redemption? Haro!

--

As for the hints that we are just joking here, and the gentle hooks from behind stage to pull my catastrophe from public view, well, I'm not giggling.

I almost appreciate the attempt to lighten the mood, but I'm damned sharp prig when it comes to doing literature correctly.

Besides, you can't hide the thread in obscurity now!

I've appended so many obnoxious, demeaning adjectives to the "disclaimer" curse already in this thread that, by the vice grip of its octopus logic we cannot but succeed in un-brainwashing our brothers and sisters in belles lettres.

Can't you hear the stifled groans of our fellow sufferers? They approach.
Caeristhiona
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Post by Caeristhiona »

Erm...I can think of little to say, other than that I am taken. :P
In my experience, nothing ruins a party like someone suddenly speaking Latin in reverse.
-- Jeffrey Rowland
Silver
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Post by Silver »

I lol'd.

Always wanted to write that once.
[color=indigo]~*~everything around her is a silver pool of light~*~[/color]

[url=http://librivox.org/newcatalog/people_public.php?peopleid=690]Silver's Projects[/url]
Kristen
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Post by Kristen »

As a listener, I'm not a big fan of the "disclaimer" at the beginning of each file. I think it belongs at the end of the file where it's more easily skipped over by the listener. But I do think the PD information and brief credits to Librivox and the reader belong, for many of the reasons you feel are troublesome but have been defended and explained previously.

- We want the listening audience to find LibriVox - as listeners and as volunteer readers. More attention to the project means more books recorded and released. As some listeners come to us from a single short story or piece of recorded poetry, having this credit on every file is necessary.

- The "disclaimer" really isn't a disclaimer at all. It just makes perfectly clear what might otherwise be murky: the copyright status of the recordings. This is important knowledge for people who want to repurpose the files and for those who are recording the files.

- Many of the people who volunteer their voices for posterity want to be recognised in their quest for fame, fortune or whatever. It would be parsimonious to deny them that little perq for their time and effort.

If you want to rework the files into your own disclaimer-less versions and host them on a server that pleases you more than archive.org, I say go for it. The files are yours to strip as you like, as you well know from having heard "All LibriVox recordings are in the public domain" so many times.
Kristen
http://www.mediatinker.com
[url=http://librivox.org/wiki/moin.cgi/KristenMcQuillin/]My recordings & claimed chapters[/url]
ChristianPecaut
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Post by ChristianPecaut »

Kristen wrote:As a listener, I'm not a big fan of the "disclaimer" at the beginning of each file. I think it belongs at the end of the file where it's more easily skipped over by the listener. But I do think the PD information and brief credits to Librivox and the reader belong, for many of the reasons you feel are troublesome but have been defended and explained previously.
I am willing to concede removing the "disclaimer" to the end of each file would be a worthy improvement, absent stricter purity.

Change is still certainly needed, right away.
Kristen wrote:We want the listening audience to find LibriVox - as listeners and as volunteer readers. More attention to the project means more books recorded and released. As some listeners come to us from a single short story or piece of recorded poetry, having this credit on every file is necessary.
Yes, it must be admitted that this occurs.

There is a way to accomplish this task without soaking each fragment of literature with a "brand".

It is the principle of subordinating all literature to a fleeting technical vocabulary that rankles me.

Librivox.org will not, nor will any other domain name, survive the ravages of coming generations of technological change.

Yet the audio files will endure longer in their current form, and already do reside elsewhere in digitial archives, than the nexus that is Librivox.org.

We must aspire to emulate the kind of endurance that literature maintains -- not the more ephemeral whims of the current material forces of reproduction.

What is it that endures within an artistic, scientific, or philosophical work against time's decay?

It is not the bookseller, or printer, or binder, or type-setter, nor paper, ink, or layout in between pages.

Yes, modernity has wrought exceptions -- and incidental copies of antiquated books remain and even appear on our screens in images more accurate the the human eye.

But such membra disjecta are various and mutable -- centuries preserve only the essence, and our task is to renew the fallow fields of our heritage with our eye fixed immovably on permanence.

Perhaps I search in vain for purity in literature -- I have doubted my project since boyhood.

Yet I see my failing not in the correctness of the ideal, but the unrelenting clamor and domination of all forms of human life today, and its repugnance for value without ownership.

As if the human race is succumbing to an anxious disease whereby they pathologically refuse to imagine that something can exist without someone, somewhere knowing whose property it is.

A deep anxiety that nothing exists unless it is tagged, cataloged, and appropriated.

The encyclopaedist's efforts should annihilate any trace of her own labors -- letting stand only the work itself.

Each audio recording of a book is an encyclopaedic act over the strings of words.

It just is not right to "tramp your muddy boots" on the object you wish to preserve and share.

Definitely not with computer lingo, and probably not even with the reader's name -- although this problem deserves more public digestion and debate.
Kristen wrote:The "disclaimer" really isn't a disclaimer at all. It just makes perfectly clear what might otherwise be murky: the copyright status of the recordings. This is important knowledge for people who want to repurpose the files and for those who are recording the files.
The thinly veiled theft and exploitation at the core of copyrights today will remain murky whether your refer to it or not.

All the more reason not to inflict our own age's barbarities on the few treasures that escaped previous epoch's greedy and destructively ignorant overlords.
Kristen wrote:Many of the people who volunteer their voices for posterity want to be recognised in their quest for fame, fortune or whatever. It would be parsimonious to deny them that little perq for their time and effort.
I'll hazard an unorthodox thesis in the courtesy that Kristen has awakened in my polemic.

Everyone of us records books for the same reason, no exceptions.

I'll leave my arguments aside for now, unless prodded by the inquisitive and sympathetic.
Kristen wrote:If you want to rework the files into your own disclaimer-less versions and host them on a server that pleases you more than archive.org, I say go for it. The files are yours to strip as you like, as you well know from having heard "All LibriVox recordings are in the public domain" so many times.
Are there better or even equivalent free servers to archive.org?

I presume not, and would be glad to be wrong.

It's the double bind again -- the big bad guys have all the money and power, and with it, they create valuable resources -- but they always make sure to maintain control.

So, you want the best? You gotta get it from them.

I do, but I don't like it. And I carve out my freedom by saying so publically in the sharpest terms.
Cori
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Post by Cori »

Perhaps I search in vain for purity in literature -- I have doubted my project since boyhood.
Ahh, you say it like it was a long time ago, which is in grave doubt from the emotional tone of your posting. And, I'd note, that you're not talking about purity in literature, you're talking about purity in one particular method of sharing literature. Vast difference -- and entirely subject to definition.
What is it that endures within an artistic, scientific, or philosophical work against time's decay?

It is not the bookseller, or printer, or binder, or type-setter, nor paper, ink, or layout in between pages.
The bookseller, with their price tag and stamp on every book..? The printer with their Copyright notice..? The type-setter (and, you've omitted the font-creator, generally noted in today's books)..? You've got a lot of battles to fight, methinks. How about considering this one a lost cause and going somewhere else to complain about the impurities in transmitting a Harry Potter text..?
Librivox.org will not, nor will any other domain name, survive the ravages of coming generations of technological change.

Yet the audio files will endure longer in their current form, and already do reside elsewhere in digitial archives, than the nexus that is Librivox.org.
What's so sacrosanct about an MP3 that it will survive the ages as might a piece of printed paper..? I'm quite sure domain names will last longer than the MP3 file format, and I just hope the current ubiquitousness of MP3s will allow for full conversion to whatever comes next. Now, THAT'S an interesting conversation to have. Not all this frilly-shirted woe about a 10 second disclaimer.
There's honestly no such thing as a stupid question -- but I'm afraid I can't rule out giving a stupid answer : : To Posterity and Beyond!
GlassMask
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Post by GlassMask »

I personally love the disclaimer! It's my introduction to both the work and the reader. I've got the t-shirt with the disclaimer on the back. It'll be on the next wallpaper I design for us.

I just can't wait for the 69 years or so until it's in the public domain, so we can all record it for LibriVox.

Ted
"To those who accept their fate, happiness. To those who defy their fate, glory."
ChristianPecaut
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Post by ChristianPecaut »

Cori wrote:
Perhaps I search in vain for purity in literature -- I have doubted my project since boyhood.
Ahh, you say it like it was a long time ago, which is in grave doubt from the emotional tone of your posting. And, I'd note, that you're not talking about purity in literature, you're talking about purity in one particular method of sharing literature. Vast difference -- and entirely subject to definition.
You press justly on an inaccurate, confusing slogan on my part -- "purity in literature".

I clutched at words, and chose that ugly phrase, rather than grind a more nutritious and accurate name for my ideal.

Yet I speak of more than just exchange.

Struggle along with me, if you will.

It was through the Ellman biography of Joyce that I formed my taste.

Now, it's this wreck society that thrusts foetid, gory fields and bitterest deception between my childhood reverence and its adult fruition.

I rub against this grain to fertilize the possibility for redeeming this age and its buried ancestry.

Of course, I had a computer, 286-12mhz w/ a 40mb hard drive and a 2400bps modem when I began venerate books most.

So somehow that's gotta be part of the solution -- otherwise my soul rested its head on destiny's wrong pillow.
Cori wrote:You've got a lot of battles to fight, methinks.
Aye.
Cori wrote:How about considering this one a lost cause and going somewhere else to complain about the impurities in transmitting a Harry Potter text..?
Nay.
Cori wrote:
ChristianPecaut wrote:Librivox.org will not, nor will any other domain name, survive the ravages of coming generations of technological change.

Yet the audio files will endure longer in their current form, and already do reside elsewhere in digitial archives, than the nexus that is Librivox.org.
What's so sacrosanct about an MP3 that it will survive the ages as might a piece of printed paper..? I'm quite sure domain names will last longer than the MP3 file format, and I just hope the current ubiquitousness of MP3s will allow for full conversion to whatever comes next. Now, THAT'S an interesting conversation to have. Not all this frilly-shirted woe about a 10 second disclaimer.
MP3s will probably disappear if domain names disappear -- what is either, anyhow?

MP3 is a specific file-compression format for audio data.

A domain name is a word or name that refers to a specific group of files.

Both are operate as units, beside many millions and billions of other units of the same type.

No sanctity here. Right in front of your eyes.
Plainness. That's without "disclaimer" gunk.

Full conversion is assured -- otherwise the technical advance would be a regression.

Without seeing a way to make the leap that would advance us beyond individual audio recordings and individual writings (html+Web) -- my curiosity ends there.

There was the idea for an audio search engine -- so that I could find the word "officious" (the haystack's needles) pronounced by the thirty-nine book recorders that included the words in their creations.

And then if you made the listening of the different recordings of "officious" and a range of contextual sentence(s) flow together somehow, and off of one another -- and in different ways.

You'd have a living dictionary of a new sort.

If we had that kinda tech, then we could just set up a batch-edit for the "disclaimer" cut from the mp3s.

---

I stand by the T'ang poems for example.

There, the Librivox "disclaimer" is an ear-sore.

Was it due to Librivox that the project ever arrived into audio?

Perhaps, but not without the whole history of the poetry and its civilization preserving itself alongside, these last millenia.

"Librivox.org" and copyright mumbo-jumbo should not be a noisy arch you must walk beneath before your hear ancient poetry. No.

The suggestion of putting all extraneous audio at the end of each recording I and others endorsed.

It's the best solution this thread has formed, so far.
Chrisczech
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Post by Chrisczech »

The suggestion of putting all extraneous audio at the end of each recording I and others endorsed.

It's the best solution this thread has formed, so far.
I disagree. The end of the piece should be a time for reflection on what one has heard, especially with poetic works. A simple statement that one has reached the end of the piece is sufficient, and is not too obtrusive to the reflective process.
Putting other material at that point is similar to the current practice on television of advertising the next programme before the credits have finished rolling for the current programme. Sometimes, when a film or other drama has a strong emotional content (analogous to the poetry example) the feeling is immediately crushed by the announcer.

No, if a 'disclaimer' is necessary (and I stand foursquare with the Librivox team on this) then it should not be at the end. This leaves it as an introduction, where its influence is not detrimental to the literature, in my view.
[url=http://librivox.org/idle_thoughts_of_an_idle_fellow_by_jerome_k_jerome/]Idle Thoughts Of An Idle Fellow[/url] / [url=http://librivox.org/the-triumphs-of-eugene-valmont-by-robert-barr]The Triumphs Of Eugene Valmont[/url]
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