However, the profit is minimal, especially with the time it takes to burn and prepare CDs to send to people. I mean I'll bet you anything they're not getting much. Consider the time it would take for them to complete so many CDs, for so many books, and add all that time up. Minus costs and shipping (which are admittedly minimal) do you think they're getting anywhere near 5.15 an hour? I doubt they're getting more than 1$ an hour.
If I were to start giving out LV CDs of our books en masse, I would charge for it too (unless it were for a charity cause). It takes time, and causes wear on your CD burner. I doubt this person will make enough to buy a new CD burner when it dies out (they don't seem to last very long).
As far as the summaries, I think this discussion is good as it now prompts us to decide what we need to do with them. Put them in the public domain (with pemission) with the rest of the recordings, or have writers retain copyright on them. I honestly couldn't give a damn what anyone does with any summaries I may have written (don't think I have though).
eBayed Librivox!
When I first saw the note today about the eBay seller, I was mildly disgruntled that someone was making money off our little operation. As several folks here have said, it just didn't feel right. But then I thought some more about it, and here's my opinion:
Eh. . .
I made a choice long ago to do the things I loved without considering remuneration. I have a job which pays my bills, and my spare time has nothing to do with profit. I've acted, illustrated, written and taught for most of my life, and I've gotten paid a few times. It doesn't matter.
I have a respect for what I do, and what all of you do, that can't be bought. And the public domain is robbed of so many wonderful things each time copyright laws are extended for corporate interests; it needs all the great recordings we can give it! When we release these creative works of ours out into the wild, anyone can do anything with them, but no one can take them away from us.
I just feel lucky, y'know, that I've had the chance to experience some fascinating and entertaining things in my life. I owe something back, to everyone. We can all see the true value in what we're doing here. If someone else just sees a way to make a buck, how sad. At least we get some free publicity out of each purchase.
Just my opinion. . .
That Darn Ted
Eh. . .
I made a choice long ago to do the things I loved without considering remuneration. I have a job which pays my bills, and my spare time has nothing to do with profit. I've acted, illustrated, written and taught for most of my life, and I've gotten paid a few times. It doesn't matter.
I have a respect for what I do, and what all of you do, that can't be bought. And the public domain is robbed of so many wonderful things each time copyright laws are extended for corporate interests; it needs all the great recordings we can give it! When we release these creative works of ours out into the wild, anyone can do anything with them, but no one can take them away from us.
I just feel lucky, y'know, that I've had the chance to experience some fascinating and entertaining things in my life. I owe something back, to everyone. We can all see the true value in what we're doing here. If someone else just sees a way to make a buck, how sad. At least we get some free publicity out of each purchase.
Just my opinion. . .
That Darn Ted
"To those who accept their fate, happiness. To those who defy their fate, glory."
yes Kri--the fee is very reasonable, considering the time investment involved, but what I am sure people would not like is the charging of a blatantly unreasonable fee for mass profit. This person was very honest and streight forward about his intent, but that does not mean that others will be.
If many are disturbed by this first instance, I think that their will be many greater ones in store for us.
It could be much much worse and it probably will happen wheather we know about it or not.
if people are aware that they can come here and get these recordings for free, or buy them from a veriety of more honest and reasonable sellers, they will. The problem comes when a person is fooled into thinking that they must come to so and so for the product that he sells.
People who make big profits relly on the ignorance of the consumer conserning the products they sell.
If many are disturbed by this first instance, I think that their will be many greater ones in store for us.
It could be much much worse and it probably will happen wheather we know about it or not.
if people are aware that they can come here and get these recordings for free, or buy them from a veriety of more honest and reasonable sellers, they will. The problem comes when a person is fooled into thinking that they must come to so and so for the product that he sells.
People who make big profits relly on the ignorance of the consumer conserning the products they sell.
-
thistlechick
- Posts: 6170
- Joined: November 30th, 2005, 12:14 pm
- Location: Michigan
Another option that is easier to use, less expensive, and more "grassroots" is http://etsy.com
~ Betsie
Multiple projects lead to multiple successes!
Multiple projects lead to multiple successes!
As a writer and voice-over actor who works hard and often has to make tradeoffs of one sort or another, I must say that there is a point at which one must draw a line. Summaries were not clearly addressed. Let me say that is by no means a nefarious action on anyone?s part. Librivox has been put together piece by piece and issues aren?t always addressed, which have not been risen. Summaries have now risen to the surface.
I agreed to release my recordings into the public domain, but not my writing. When I saw my writing being used without my consent to advertise the sale of my audio files, I was not happy. It?s one thing if I cannot make a seller remove my audio files, because of the PD, but I will not help them sell my work with my writing. That?s asking too much.
I just had to speak out about my writing. I contacted this seller about my summary. He has removed it, thankfully. He also gave me the option of removing my audio files from his sale and I accepted this offer. I?ll have to check again later about that.
Seeing my summary removed made me feel better. Obviously he believed summaries to be in the public domain, as others will. He reiterated to me that he has a right to use my audio files, even if he withdraws them. So he does. I told him that I don?t have to like it though. I urged him to raise money through grants or other avenues of sponsorship, if he truly intends to make CDs available to the blind. He is charging them, after all, and I stated I do not approve of this. Why should I? Furthermore, any buyer on eBay could buy these CDs without knowing they could download them for free. It?s the danger of the internet, as we all know, but again, we don?t have to like it.
I agreed to release my recordings into the public domain, but not my writing. When I saw my writing being used without my consent to advertise the sale of my audio files, I was not happy. It?s one thing if I cannot make a seller remove my audio files, because of the PD, but I will not help them sell my work with my writing. That?s asking too much.
I just had to speak out about my writing. I contacted this seller about my summary. He has removed it, thankfully. He also gave me the option of removing my audio files from his sale and I accepted this offer. I?ll have to check again later about that.
Seeing my summary removed made me feel better. Obviously he believed summaries to be in the public domain, as others will. He reiterated to me that he has a right to use my audio files, even if he withdraws them. So he does. I told him that I don?t have to like it though. I urged him to raise money through grants or other avenues of sponsorship, if he truly intends to make CDs available to the blind. He is charging them, after all, and I stated I do not approve of this. Why should I? Furthermore, any buyer on eBay could buy these CDs without knowing they could download them for free. It?s the danger of the internet, as we all know, but again, we don?t have to like it.
This is a great idea Yakumo. The only thing would be the problem of somone implimenting it . And of course the logistics of it all. It would be quite an undertaking. Idealy, People could request a cd from our catalogue and someone would produce it and send it off for the cost of making the cd and postage. I wonder if we could do a "test drive" ie put a notice on the catalogue page that if somone prefered an mp3 cd (or audio cd) They could email somone who would then make it and send it out. ....... just tossing out and idea.......Yakumo wrote:come to think of it, ebay is a great way to spread librivox recordings fairly to those that want librivox recordings to be shiped to them on cd or dvd.
my point is that librivox itself could make this work to their advantage.
Edit: With all the volunteers we have here from all over the world, it would be possible to save on shipping by having somone in the same country/area to produce the cd..................
"Reasonable people adapt themselves to the world. Unreasonable
people attempt to adapt the world to themselves. All progress,
therefore, depends on unreasonable people." George Bernard Shaw
people attempt to adapt the world to themselves. All progress,
therefore, depends on unreasonable people." George Bernard Shaw
Super!!! I totally support it.
My feelings are hurt - Where is WarOftheWorlds? It's worth 5 bucks!!!!!
My feelings are hurt - Where is WarOftheWorlds? It's worth 5 bucks!!!!!
[url=http://librivox.org/wiki/moin.cgi/PromotionalMaterial][color=indigo]Want to promote LV? Print the poster and pin it at your library[/color][/url] | [url=http://librivox.org/wiki/moin.cgi/Stephan_Moebius][color=indigo]My wiki page[/color][/url]
Perhaps many of us would feel different though, if he`d charge 12$ for each CD and sell hundrets. Then envy would undeniably come into play.
[url=http://librivox.org/wiki/moin.cgi/PromotionalMaterial][color=indigo]Want to promote LV? Print the poster and pin it at your library[/color][/url] | [url=http://librivox.org/wiki/moin.cgi/Stephan_Moebius][color=indigo]My wiki page[/color][/url]
I imagine if someone sold them for that much, they'd get negative feedback from the first person who discovered they were available for free (even if the disclaimers were chopped off, *someone* would recognize the material. Freedom to do what they like with the material also means freedom to accept the consequences.
PD is good. I like PD.
PD is good. I like PD.
[url=http://librivox.org/wiki/moin.cgi/TinaTilney/]Tina's Wiki Page[/url] | I can receive files by [url=http://www.pando.com/]pando.com[/url]
Well, I did the currancy exchange on the UK pound and his price (lowest) works out to $16 Can.
It would cost me 89 cents to ship (within Canada), 40 cents for the cd, ($1.00 for cd with case) and I would figure less then $1 for a padded envelope and cd lable. MAXIMUM TOTAL $3.00
That would be for an mp3 cd. Audio Cd's would be significantly more as it would take several cd's to burn just one book.
It would cost me 89 cents to ship (within Canada), 40 cents for the cd, ($1.00 for cd with case) and I would figure less then $1 for a padded envelope and cd lable. MAXIMUM TOTAL $3.00
That would be for an mp3 cd. Audio Cd's would be significantly more as it would take several cd's to burn just one book.
"Reasonable people adapt themselves to the world. Unreasonable
people attempt to adapt the world to themselves. All progress,
therefore, depends on unreasonable people." George Bernard Shaw
people attempt to adapt the world to themselves. All progress,
therefore, depends on unreasonable people." George Bernard Shaw
GBP3.48 = CAD16?!
Ouch! I knew the pound was high, but I didn't know it was *that* high. *ponders going on a shopping spree in Montreal*
Ouch! I knew the pound was high, but I didn't know it was *that* high. *ponders going on a shopping spree in Montreal*
[url=http://librivox.org/wiki/moin.cgi/TinaTilney/]Tina's Wiki Page[/url] | I can receive files by [url=http://www.pando.com/]pando.com[/url]
NO NO NO. 1 GBP= $2 Can BUT....... The cost of his cd's translated to $16 Can which means he IS making a profit. Though not a huge one.tina wrote:GBP3.48 = CAD16?!
Ouch! I knew the pound was high, but I didn't know it was *that* high. *ponders going on a shopping spree in Montreal*
"Reasonable people adapt themselves to the world. Unreasonable
people attempt to adapt the world to themselves. All progress,
therefore, depends on unreasonable people." George Bernard Shaw
people attempt to adapt the world to themselves. All progress,
therefore, depends on unreasonable people." George Bernard Shaw
A partial implementation maybe of value too.Starlite wrote: This is a great idea Yakumo. The only thing would be the problem of somone implimenting it . And of course the logistics of it all. It would be quite an undertaking.
For instance one could prepare iso images that are ready to burn into a CD or a DVD.
The users could burn that image onto a blank CD themselves and then pop it into their CD players that are able to handle MP3 files.
One can make themed CD images, for instance one for short stories, one for children litterature, one for poetry etc...
Would a DVD be big enough to hold the current catalog?
First of all there has been discusion about cd covers here:raouf wrote: A partial implementation maybe of value too.
For instance one could prepare iso images that are ready to burn into a CD or a DVD.
The users could burn that image onto a blank CD themselves and then pop it into their CD players that are able to handle MP3 files.
One can make themed CD images, for instance one for short stories, one for children litterature, one for poetry etc...
Would a DVD be big enough to hold the current catalog?
http://librivox.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2500
I dont know if the catalogue would fit on a dvd. But it IS a good idea too.
"Reasonable people adapt themselves to the world. Unreasonable
people attempt to adapt the world to themselves. All progress,
therefore, depends on unreasonable people." George Bernard Shaw
people attempt to adapt the world to themselves. All progress,
therefore, depends on unreasonable people." George Bernard Shaw