eBayed Librivox!

Comments about LibriVox? Suggestions to improve things? News?
MermaidMaddie
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Post by MermaidMaddie » August 2nd, 2006, 10:11 pm

I admit I am on the side of not being sure whether to feel "honored" or weirded out by this. I checked out this seller's listings and was shocked to find that he or she is selling my recent solo recording of "Little Wizard Stories of Oz". Shocked, because with all of the excellent recordings on LV I can't fathom why they would pick that one...(also can't imagine anyone paying to hear me talk, LOL. )

I notice there was one "neutral" feedback for the seller commenting on the fact that the very same recording is available for free on the net. I know if I were a buyer, I might feel kind of misled or "cheated", but at the same time, like it has been said some people can't download the recordings themselves so it is a valuable service for those folks...

still I think some buyers might feel a little unhappy if they didn't know ahead of time that they were paying for something they could get for free. On the other hand, since the seller's disclaimer does say the recordings have been released into the public domain, if I were a buyer reading that (now,) I'd do a web search for the work to see if there were other sources for it before I bid anyway. But only because I now am familiar with the concept of "public domain"...a couple of years ago I was so excited to see someone selling a CD with something like 18 of L. Frank Baums books in ebook form for 5.00, I almost bid on it.
Most likely they got the texts from gutenberg, but I didn't know PGexisted back then and probably would have been happy to buy something I wanted and had no clue was available for free. On the other hand, knowing what I know now, I would be mad at myself if I'd payed 5.00 plus shipping for stories I can legally get for free. :roll:

The one thing I did notice, as someone else mentioned, was that the seller used my catalog description word for word *except* that, while I credited the website Iwas quoting directly from, they omitted that altogether. That's a little "iffy" in my eyes, but it's their can of worms, not mine, since I made sure to credit the source originally.

all in all I think it's an interesting thing and kind of cool that, as hugh and others said, they are providing a format we ourselves don't yet provide.

I just hope the seller realizes (since they are listed as a seller in the UK) that some of our recordings are only in the PD here in the US, and they might accidentally sell something that is not legal/PD in the UK or elsewhere. I guess the number of recordings where this could happen is very small, but still something the seller should research, methinks. :)
[color=green]"Elphaba, where I'm from, we believe all sorts of things that aren't true...we call it 'history'. "[/color]

[url=http://librivox.org/wiki/moin.cgi/MermaidMaddie][color=purple]MermaidMaddie's Wiki Page[/color][/url]

DSayers
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Post by DSayers » August 2nd, 2006, 10:54 pm

--snip, off-topic--
Last edited by DSayers on August 3rd, 2006, 6:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

DSayers
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Post by DSayers » August 2nd, 2006, 11:02 pm

--snip, off-topic--
Last edited by DSayers on August 3rd, 2006, 6:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

Starlite
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Post by Starlite » August 3rd, 2006, 3:49 am

ndoo wrote:One quick question: While I stated Librivox recordings are in the public domain; I did not state that my summary was. Am I missing something? Are our written summaries considered in the public domain? Here and on the Internet Archive we are given credit where credit is due. Mine was used by this individual minus my name.

-Nikolle
I just noticed that if you click the sumary of your recording, it links back to the librivox home page :) Though most of them do not.
"Reasonable people adapt themselves to the world. Unreasonable
people attempt to adapt the world to themselves. All progress,
therefore, depends on unreasonable people." George Bernard Shaw

ndoo
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Post by ndoo » August 3rd, 2006, 5:46 am

There is, however, an important distinction to be made regarding the distribution of CDs. I was one of the volunteers here who suggested people burn CDs of Librivox recordings to send to the troops via AnySoldier.com. That is a site which supports men and women in harm?s way who need you to (out of the goodness of your heart) send them necessities and entertainment items free of charge. This would also apply to hospitals, convalescent homes, schools, etc.

There was no need for attempting to establish a more formal distribution method, unless some kind philanthropist wants to do so?free of charge. Anyone with a burner and a blank CD can do it. It is, of course, an optional volunteer effort. I encourage Librivox readers and listeners and those associated with a worthy cause to do so?free of charge.

I certainly feel it is a moral imperative for anyone who volunteers here to keep the proper attributions for any work that is not our own. If you created it, you can do what you want with it. Yet, if I?m putting together a poetry collection CD, for instance, I would not remove anyone else?s name who read the work (unless they asked me to for some reason).

This individual is out for profit?not philanthropy. All other discussion aside, those of us who were talking about burning CDs were referring to donating them free of charge to charities and humanitarian causes. We were not discussing commercial ventures. It is important that we make this distinction.

-Nikolle

ndoo
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Post by ndoo » August 3rd, 2006, 6:26 am

Starlite wrote:
ndoo wrote:One quick question: While I stated Librivox recordings are in the public domain; I did not state that my summary was. Am I missing something? Are our written summaries considered in the public domain? Here and on the Internet Archive we are given credit where credit is due. Mine was used by this individual minus my name.

-Nikolle
I just noticed that if you click the sumary of your recording, it links back to the librivox home page :) Though most of them do not.
By linking to Librivox, though not to my catalog page where my name is clearly visible, even this individual is effectually realizing a grey area. My writing is an original work created by me. Though anything posted on the internet may be stolen by anyone, it is still created by a creator. On the catalog page for my recording of The Turn of the Screw, there is no mention of ?no rights reserved.?

http://librivox.org/the-turn-of-the-screw-by-henry-james/

It is an interesting point, I believe. While we have stated our recordings are in the public domain, we have not implicitly stated that our summaries are. Should there not be further discussion about this? Personally speaking, I am by no means interested in helping such spongers sell my work.

-Nikolle

hugh
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Post by hugh » August 3rd, 2006, 6:30 am

indeed that's true, but Public Domain *means* that anyone can use any of our recordings however they like, for any purpose (commercial or otherwise), with or without attribution, altered or not.

Public Domain means that we have relinquished all rights we would normally have under copyright law. We've had some long discussions about this:

http://librivox.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=91 (ps this one includes comments form just about everyone who was involved in LV at the beginning)
http://librivox.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2037
http://librivox.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=718

and it's in "Our Fundamental Principles"

* Librivox is a non-commercial, non-profit and ad-free project
* Librivox donates its recordings to the public domain
* Librivox is powered by volunteers
* Librivox maintains a loose and open structure
* Librivox welcomes all volunteers from across the globe

denny: indeed fanny is wonderful - I listened to about half of it on a long drive this past weekend, and I could not see out of the windshield for the fog. have another long drive coming this weekend. I'm looking forward to it. ;-)

ndoo
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Post by ndoo » August 3rd, 2006, 6:53 am

Yes, I understand about the recordings, but I was specifically speaking about the summaries. Participation on this site does come with certain known risks, but there may be some grey area. Emphasis is placed on the recordings. It's healthy to be clear; and this topic, as far as I have seen, has only come up now regarding summaries. It's good to put it on the table. If summaries are clearly stated here to also be in the "public domain," let's be certain of that. All present and future volunteers should be clear on that.

-Nikolle

hugh
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Post by hugh » August 3rd, 2006, 7:06 am

thats a very good point, and one that hadn't come up till now... or crossed the radar!

pattymarie
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Post by pattymarie » August 3rd, 2006, 8:07 am

xxxxx
Last edited by pattymarie on April 2nd, 2014, 11:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

Kristen
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Post by Kristen » August 3rd, 2006, 4:45 pm

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I consider everything I do for LibriVox in the public domain - certainly anything related to the recordings, including summaries.

I whipped up some t-shirt designs, which another LibriVoxer modified slightly and now sells for a profit. That's fine; I need neither credit nor kickback. I did the LibriVox logo and web design, too, and if anyone were to copy it, well, more power to those who like teal and chartreuse. The font and color details are even in our wiki.

Perhaps we need to clarify somewhere in wiki or on the website exactly which contributions are in the PD. That way everyone can decide for themselves what to give or hold back.
Kristen
http://www.mediatinker.com
[url=http://librivox.org/wiki/moin.cgi/KristenMcQuillin/]My recordings & claimed chapters[/url]

kayray
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Post by kayray » August 3rd, 2006, 4:52 pm

Kristen wrote:Maybe I'm in the minority, but I consider everything I do for LibriVox in the public domain - certainly anything related to the recordings, including summaries.
Ditto. Anything I do or make or read or write for librivox is PD.
Kara
http://kayray.org/
--------
"Mary wished to say something very sensible into her Zoom H2 Handy Recorder, but knew not how." -- Jane Austen (& Kara)

ndoo
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Post by ndoo » August 3rd, 2006, 5:20 pm

I believe that LibriVox only implicitly states that audio recordings are released into the public domain. The following excerpt taken from: http://librivox.org/public-domain/ does not mention original written material by volunteers. It states the following:

"LibriVox takes texts already in the public domain, asks volunteers to make audio recordings of that text, and then releases the resulting audio back into the public domain. If you volunteer to record for LibriVox, you must agree to release the audio files you make into the public domain. Meaning anyone can use those audio files however they wish."

Fair enough. That does not apply to the summaries, however. Perhaps it has been ?implied,? but it has not been ?implicit.?

Librivox?s emphasis on text is about text already existing in the public domain to prove copyright status. We have not clearly addressed the status of summaries written by volunteers. It can only be seen, as far as I understand, that all summaries (as of this date) are owned by the creator who has posted his/her content for the edification only of the public. It is not implicitly stated that these writings are in the public domain; and therefore should not be used by anyone else without the express written consent of the author.

While I realize that this creates a bit of a conundrum, fair is fair. If any entity chooses to sell our work, which he or she made no effort to produce and has provided no compensation for, then why should we also supply the advertising?

Now, if Librivox wants to make it clear to all volunteers that their summaries are to be public domain, then that?s another risk one must be willing to accept. Otherwise, original summaries should be considered the property of the creator. To resolve this, all authors of written summaries should be given a choice to classify their work as public domain or not. If it goes against the grain of Librivox to accept a disclaimer such as (This summary written by Jane Doe is not in the public domain), then all authors should be allowed to request that their summaries be removed, if they so desire. Either way, a posting must be decided upon, which clearly states the status of our summaries. What a nightmare, but tiramisu?whoever that is on eBay has sparked a controversy, which cannot be ignored.

I feel strongly about this issue now that I see my writing being abused. If Librivox wishes to apply a public domain policy about written summaries, then I will respectfully withdraw mine. I do not feel comfortable with the theft of my writing, nor do I feel comfortable with placing it in the public domain, which may lead to the current example.

It might be helpful in future that any inquiries into the reproduction of our work for commercial purposes be directed to the individual readers for any prior approval, if any such approval is sought. We know that we cannot expect much, but if there is an option to state our disapproval, then we should be allowed that, especially if it means preventing someone from lifting our work, which is not clearly in the public domain.

Regards,
Nikolle

LenLen
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Post by LenLen » August 3rd, 2006, 7:36 pm

I'm supposing that all of the volunteers that feel a bit offset by someone making a profit from their work in general, be it summary or reading, feels that way about both, but is willing to accept the recordings being in the PD as we agreed to this by posting them.

After a little more consideration, I think I understand why I still feel a bit offset too. I joined in contributing for many reasons, though a prominent one was the nature of everything contributed by me would be free for all to enjoy. Even greater personal satisfaction comes from the coordination of so many generous and talented people toward this principle. It feels like a unique movement happens here by all working together effortlessly with these principles. Very philanthropic, if you will. :roll:

Although this seller seems to be taking nearly the highest road possible, by contacting librivox, stating that they're in the PD, leaving intro's in the recordings, artwork, etc.; it still seems a tad dirty because it's not the work I did (if it ends up on ebay) that's being violated. It's the principle I value of it being free for everyone that feels a bit violated. It's a disappointment that everyone isn't a philanthropist.

I think some clarification like, "All Librivox content is in the public domain. (and some might also add, "so please don't profit from it!") :lol:

Oh well. We'll see what happens. Mixed bag of nuts here. :)

Yakumo
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Post by Yakumo » August 3rd, 2006, 7:46 pm

come to think of it, ebay is a great way to spread librivox recordings fairly to those that want librivox recordings to be shiped to them on cd or dvd.

Since a non member has already started, why don't librivox members join the fun, by providing their own work in this way and charging a fee sufficient to cover cost of cds or dvds and shipping. A member of librivox could post a link to the librivox page on his e bay sales page. That way, anyone who buys the cds knows for certain that they are not being cheated and are only helping to cover legitamate costs of the seller.

my point is that librivox itself could make this work to their advantage.

librivox members could sell cds of their works with the sole intent of providing cds for those that would like them and knowing full well that they can get these for free.



The thing that is disturbing is that someone who does not produce librivox recordings is selling them for his own profit.

If a volunteer would sell his or her own work, with the sole intent that it is provided to those that want or need cds for a nominal and fair fee it would be diffrent.

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