Accents vs. Mispronunciation

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catrose
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Post by catrose » August 16th, 2012, 8:07 am

Thomas Jefferson said "I have nothing but contempt for anyone who can spell a word only one way." Maybe the same can be said about those who can only pronounce something more than one way? :)
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bobgon55
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Post by bobgon55 » August 16th, 2012, 9:22 am

Many words have two equally acceptable pronunciation, such as often, being pronounced either with or without a voiced "t." Dictionary.com offers POO-mah (non-liquid "u") as an acceptable alternative but my American Heritage Dictionary only lists the liquid "u" (PYOO-mah). There are some words, however, that only have one pronuncuation, such "moon," which could not understandably be pronounced "myoon."
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jollyrogered
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Post by jollyrogered » August 16th, 2012, 10:20 am

Well, arguably, the OED does TRY to set the standard . But thats just my point, English, has so many variants, words stolen for other languages, and accents, that just because someone thinks its a mispronounciation doesn't mean it is. Which is why I think that the whole "people mispronounce things at Librivox" is a question with too much emphasis on it. Ive listened to literally hundreds of hours of Librivox, and the only thing I heard that ever really tripped me up was someone pronouncing "decease" "dekayse" and I still figured it out.... so I think its hardly a big deal.

Also, frankly, I think POO-MA, does sound better :D.
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Post by lubee930 » August 16th, 2012, 11:08 am

So--I think that it is fair to say that there are [at least] three different elements here--differences due to accents, legit variations in pronunciation, and mispronunciations.

If a PL'er listening to one of my recordings feels that I have mispronounced a word, PLEASE point it out to me! I want to get it right! I will not be hurt or irritated or offended. Perhaps I have been mispronouncing it all of my life--and if so, I would certainly like to know it. But know also that if I can point my PL'er to a confirmation of my pronunciation, I may hope to just leave it as is.

And if I, as a PL'er, ever post a PL note that any reader feels is incorrect--do tell me! I may not have understood your reading, or I may have made an error. I always begin with and proceed with the premise that we're working toward the same goal: a quality recording for our listeners! :)
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Post by bobgon55 » August 16th, 2012, 11:17 am

This is all great. Lucretia, this makes me think it is time for a podcast about this. Would some of you who entered into this discussion care to record some segments for the show? It could be exactly what you have been writing here or variations on it. Please think about it. It would be very helpful, I think, to air all the concerns and different opinions and it will help readers and PLers.

Bob
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Lilith1966
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Post by Lilith1966 » August 16th, 2012, 12:31 pm

To be honest Bob I would like to do that but I feel I would make people even more upset with me than they already are :|
I can see this is a hot topic for many of us, and I'm not sure if pursuing the subject would get anywhere-although that may not be what you are thinking -I guess a podcast is just a sort of extended forum? I must say that this whole discussion makes me emotional, that is why I'm not making much sense! This is a subject that has been present throught the history of this project, so based on that, it is not going to go away. I think I feel upset because it feels like the "elephant in the room" -no one wants to talk about it in any depth and some just want to ignore it's existence. Even though the founder's philosophy is clear, this issue does exist, it is persistent, we cannot say "we don't talk about that here" FULL STOP. I feel that the "philosophy" has been set forward and the expectation is that we follow the "rule" but I feel it is ever so slightly a denial of free speech-to not feel safe about expressing an uncommon opinion in case people don't like you because of that opinion and because you don 't fit in with the group. You see, believe it or not, I really do want people to like me, but I feel like if I am honest they will say " go home, we don't play that game here" and I feel excluded. The existence of a few mispronunciations is no longer what bothers me, it actually pales in comparison to feeling censored.(emotionally, not literally) Sorry to be so long winded, but the subject for me now, is more about being able,in an adult forum, to express a different opinion. I want to make friends, but not if everyone must wear the same t-shirt and walk the same way-do you see what I mean? Oh man, I'm obsessing! I'm done.

I am sorry to be so serious and all, but I do feel like I am able to have a voice as I am not just a critic and i do contribute.

Respectfully,
Tara

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Post by Cori » August 16th, 2012, 12:43 pm

I think the problem is that sometimes it's difficult to stick to saying "here's how I do it", and so posts might sound a bit like "here's how everyone should do it". While that's rarely the poster's intention, it can be so challenging to phrase it personally (and other folks are sometimes so determined to be offended by a post, whether it's there or not) that sometimes it just is best to walk round the elephant.

After all, the microphone is on the other side, and that's the important thing, not the route taken to get to it. Though, I s'pose we do insist everyone makes their own choice of route. And suggest optimum routes in the wiki, if people can't decide.

Oh well. Elston doesn't mind. Image
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Post by catrose » August 16th, 2012, 12:54 pm

Tara dear,
We aren't upset with you at all. You're voicing your opinion. I'm voicing mine.
It isn't that we're not open to new ideas, and that we do everything by tradition because "that's the way it's done". We do appreciate new and different opinions and ideas, it's just that some don't work in the best interest of everyone at Librivox.
We are capable of disagreeing and expressing our opinion, in fact most of us readily give our opinion on lots and lots of subjects.
I think you speak drifted of course a bit. I don't understand how Accent Vs. Mispronunciation is an elephant in the room. We are all discussing it here.
People will only ignore something here if they want to. We are all volunteers here, and sometimes people would rather leave it to someone who knows what they're talking about to air an opinion before "jumping in". Others ignore parts like this and just record. It is up to the individual.
I still don't fully understand. I don't believe this is a massive issue. It's all personal preference. If a PL wants to point out a pronunciation mistake, they can. If a reader wants to change it, they can. It's volunteering, so how much you do is optional.
If you honestly feel censored, not just about this issue, but about others, I'd ask you to start a thread about it in Off Topic, because this is a thread for Accents vs. Mispronunciation and so people who comment on this want to discuss Accents vs. Mispronunciation.

Equally respectfully,
Cat

EDIT: Cori is quicker at typing than I. Loving the dancing elephant! :D
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jollyrogered
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Post by jollyrogered » August 16th, 2012, 1:05 pm

At no point did I wish to sound inflammatory. I certainly hope no one read my posts that way.

I think some of us who have been around for longer do tend to dismiss the subject because its hardly the first time that this had been brought up. If you peruse the forums its has come up multiple times (there are 5 pages of responses here alone), and it is always re-discussed, and over time and in the end we come down to the personal choice of the reader and the prooflistener because they are the ones volunteering their time, and especially for those who are reading in a second language, we want to encourage rather than discourage or frusterate anyone. Can it sometimes be a problem? Perhaps, perhaps its the listener, or perhaps it is the reader, but without singling someone out how do you correct a rarity? Plus once a work is already finished it would be so terribly difficult to track down the reader, have them correct the file, and reupload.

We certainly don't mean to frusterate you (or anyone) in this discussion. And we welcome new input from new members, because they may bring in new insight or a new idea, but largely this is suppose to be a fun and developing volunteer site, so we hate to impose too many rules or criticisms on members. I had no problem, personally, with anything you said. I was merely voicing what I -not Librivox- thought in response. I suppose a lot of the members are "on this side' but I would hate to think of it as a "side." Thats so linear. We are a conglomeration. We don't all agree. That doesn't mean we have to be partisan. Outside of admins we dont even really have leaders, lol. You are more than welcome to discuss why you thinks its an issue, thats why we have the forums :lol: I enjoy it infact, its good to be reminded of what people think!

More smiley would have been included but I dont know where everyone gets these awesome smileys.
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Lilith1966
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Post by Lilith1966 » August 16th, 2012, 1:37 pm

I really appreciate eveyone's comments :)

Tara

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Post by Piotrek81 » August 17th, 2012, 8:49 am

bobgon55 wrote:This is all great. Lucretia, this makes me think it is time for a podcast about this. Would some of you who entered into this discussion care to record some segments for the show? It could be exactly what you have been writing here or variations on it. Please think about it. It would be very helpful, I think, to air all the concerns and different opinions and it will help readers and PLers.
I have not taken part in this discussion, but I would definitely be interested in a podcast installment about this issue. I guess I could also say a bit about this from a point of view of a person who records in English as a foreign language.
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