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hugh
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Post by hugh » February 1st, 2008, 2:32 pm

If you can demonstrate that it is legally possible to substitute "anyone" for "Facebook" in Facebook's TOS, then I guess you might have a point. However, that's not what the Facebook TOS says, and not what it means.

as it stands, Facebooks TOS asserts Facebook's legal ownership of content. It does not say "anyone." It says "Facebook."

Facebook's TOS is a restatement of PD in the same way that I own all shares of Microsoft, assuming that you substitute Hugh McGuire for all the names on all MS share certificates. That is, that's not what the share certificates say, and it's not what they mean.

LibriVox's recordings are donated to the public domain, and in so doing "we" (that is all of us) explicitly relinquish all ownership of the content.

And: Lots of people do sell LV recordings (search in ebay for LibriVox). That's OK. It's part of the concept of public domain.

And the scenario you describe (storing the files, deleting from internet archive, selling the collection) is, I suppose, theoretically possible, but totally unimaginable (to me anyway).

hugh
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Post by hugh » February 1st, 2008, 3:16 pm

that would violate LibriVox's principles, see:
http://librivox.org/about-librivox/

and if you want to see the discussion on PD vs CC see (dating back to oct 2005!):
http://librivox.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=91
and another (april 2006):
http://librivox.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2037

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Post by SSherris » February 2nd, 2008, 7:41 am

Robert, this is the silliest argument I've ever seen. PD mean anyone can sell whatever they want whenever they want. Even if there were to be some hostile takeover of LV and the new management deletes all LV content from archive.org, they could not possibly monopolize it. Why? Because the data still exists on the web and more importantly, it's *still PD*! So a) the data will always be on archive.org - if not in the librivox account, then on the wayback machine. b) the data is on ibiblio and guteberg and since it's PD they have no reason to remove it, even if we ask really really nicely. c) The first time we tried to sell a recording, it would be perfectly legal and acceptable for a buyer to repackage it and resell it. Or host it on their website. Because the recording is still PD!

You may as well try to monopolize air. Or porn. Don't worry so much.

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Post by Cori » February 2nd, 2008, 9:36 am

Robert wrote:The Simple Truth is the Onlly thing Preserved by Using PD instead of CC Non-Commercial is the RIGHT TO SELL THE AUDIO
Excuse a cynical realist butting in here, but actually, the only thing to be gained by a CC-Non-C licence is the right to sue people who sell the audio. I dunno what your bank balance is like for hiring lawyers, but mine doesn't allow for that sort of frivolity. For me, I'd rather let people sell my work if they can get money for it, and if I'm helping someone pay their doctor's bills, or buy better books for their kids or keep a roof over someone's head so be it. If they wanna buy drugs or a fast car by selling me and Gertrude Stein *giggles* good luck to them. The more ways my favourite pastime can be of use to people, the better.
If a Large Corp buyer comes and Spends millions ( see Google - Youtube ) Then the Large Corp buyer after buying has a room full of attorneys that send out letters saying "please remove our data from your website " and PD or not to avoid a lawsuit the data begins to disappear .......
Robert, c'mmon, we're good -- but we're not that good. :roll: It would be MUCH cheaper to hire a building full of voice actors to reconstruct what we've done, if a Large Buyer wanted the audio secured, than put sufficient legal pressure on Gutenberg, archive.org, ibiblio, various Torrent sites, classicistranieri.com, various eBayers ... just to try and secure a restricted right to the recordings. Especially given that every recording has been dedicated to the public domain by its reader, and I don't see how, legally, that can be revoked in a useful way.


The licence used here is not going to change. That's the absolute bottom line. We record for the Public Domain. End of story.
There's honestly no such thing as a stupid question -- but I'm afraid I can't rule out giving a stupid answer : : To Posterity and Beyond!

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Post by Cloud Mountain » February 2nd, 2008, 11:35 am

This is really good. Helpful, actually. Each time we don't sell something, we're not making money for what isn't being sold.

Money isn't an issue. Nor is it a consideration. I hadn't thought about it in this way before. This thread has been very helpful in that way. Not considering money, as it isn't even part of the equation --also not, in actual sense, part of the conversation. The same thing with PD, as the parallel analogy is very apt. PD is "public domain." I think it's great we all agree on this. We are all making recordings and stating in each of our recordings that they are in the public domain. We all agree on this. I agreed to it to --and, happily continue to agree. Everyone does!

That's the nice thing about LibriVox. Actually, it makes me feel good that I myself am in the public domain, or at least a digital representations of my voice are in the public domain. Tens of people listen to my voice and it's free to them. The recordings are even free in countries that are not free countries. Think about that! Free recordings in the non Free-World!

Free. Just like air and water. What a life.
Last edited by Cloud Mountain on February 2nd, 2008, 11:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
[url=http://librivox.org/newcatalog/people_public.php?peopleid=254]Alan's LV catalog[/url]

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Post by Cloud Mountain » February 2nd, 2008, 12:25 pm

"Not FREE FOR ALL"

Robert. Could you explain what this means and the context in which you're using it? I'm not certain. I probably missed something along the way of this thread. Also, it would be helpful to me if it could just be an explanation of only that, without other associations. It's sortna not clear to me. Thanks much. --Alan
[url=http://librivox.org/newcatalog/people_public.php?peopleid=254]Alan's LV catalog[/url]

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Post by puffin1 » February 2nd, 2008, 1:27 pm

CC Non-Commercial is still recording for the Public Domain
I think if Robert sorted out this error of understanding, he wouldn't be so frightened. The "totalitarian" bait is a real winker :wink: since it is known what type of people come to this project.
[size=84][color=#483d8b][b]Is it weird in here, or is it just me? [/b][/color][/size]- [size=75][i]Steven Wright[/size][/i]

Cori
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Post by Cori » February 2nd, 2008, 2:43 pm

http://librivox.org/wiki/moin.cgi/CopyrightAndPublicDomain

Folks reading this thread might like to check out the relevant wiki page ... for reference, the wording on what use public domain licences could allow was put in on 5th Aug 2006.
There's honestly no such thing as a stupid question -- but I'm afraid I can't rule out giving a stupid answer : : To Posterity and Beyond!

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Post by earthcalling » February 2nd, 2008, 2:58 pm

And just who owns LV? What is there to own? No one owns the recordings. They are free. Free as in bird. Set loose. No strings attached.

When someone on eBay or elsewhere 'sells' LV recordings, they're only selling a copy, a CD with some audio on.

One thing that can't be sold is the ownership of the recordings, the exclusive rights. Because there is no ownership. The recordings have been set free. As in bird.

That is the whole point, is it not?

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