Been trying to restrain myself from replying to all this, but now, I just can't resist anymore.
Robert, I don't quite get what you're trying to say.
1. Your thing about Facebook and LV:
You're trying to say that "Facebook owns the data and can do as it pleases with it" and "Everyone owns the data and can do as it pleases with it" is fundamentally identical. I just can't see how it would be. Of course, the wording is similar, but the consequences are worlds apart!
2. About selling the audio.
Anyone can sell the LV recordings. Whether it is LV (depending on its legal status) or any other individual. But in doing so, they are only selling a service: packaging the recording. They do not own the audio. If someone did destroy all existing data in order to sell our recordings, it doesn't mean that they are the sole owners of the audio. It would only mean that they would be the only owners of existing copies of it. Being PD, anyone with a copy of the recordings can then re-upload the files, and make it available for free on the web.
Let's get off the internet for a second. Suppose something happens and the web doesn't work anymore (which would amount to your hypothetical situation where recordings wouldn't be accessible for free). Suppose LV still continues to offer its recordings for "free", and that there's still demand for it. How would we go about doing it?
To keep our non-commercial status, we might be asking listeners to, say, send us blank CDs with pre-stamped return envelopes, burn the CDs, mail them back. We would still be offering the recordings for free, but the listener will have to PAY for the CDs and shipping. That doesn't make our recordings any less "free".
AND, being PD, anyone who has a copy of a recording can in turn distribute it for free (or not) to anyone.
Come to think of it, if one is not allowed to "SELL" CC-non-commercial, they could still say "give me a CD, I'll make you a copy", which is basically the same thing as the people selling the LV CDs are doing, they're charging for their CDs, shipping, and labour (burning the CDs). (you wouldn't expect them to get the CDs for free, would you?)
And thinking about it again, if nobody could "sell" anything CC-non-commercial, how are the authors planning to get their work out? They're not expecting a philanthropic millionaire to print and donate their books, are they?
And even downloading the recordings isn't free: you pay for your internet service. If you're lucky enough to have unlimited access, then you can have the recordings for *almost* free. But if, like me, you have limited internet, say 20 GB/month for 20$, it would mean that I would've paid 1$ per GB of LV. ANd now that I've set the ball rolling, why not factor in the computer, the electricity, the mp3 player...
3. About the commercial entity:
just because people make money off us, it would be unfair to call US a commercial entity. If you take a picture of a tree, say, and sell your picture, it doesn't make the tree any commercial.
BTW, I have been wondering, LV doesn't have any legal status, does it?
(I wouldn't think so but I might be wrong). and if it has no legal status, it means it can't really have any rights, so LV wouldn't be able to sell anything, or even own anything, and anyone doing so "on behalf" of LV would actually be selling it in their own name.
As to who owns LV ... that would be ( ? ) Hugh the one who was $ valuing LV at the beginning of this thread the same one who objects to the Facebook TOS but has the same waiver in place at LV ....
Poor Hugh... I feel for ya! *hugs*