Pirated productions

jondalar1988 · Post by **jondalar1988** » October 5th, 2022, 11:52 am

How many of you have had your Librivox productions pirated and offered for sale on Audible? I just learned that my Librivox recording of the ASV Bible is for sale on Audible for $29.95.

Post by **TriciaG** » October 5th, 2022, 12:11 pm

Since you posted this in "Need Help? Got Advice?" I'll say this:

Is it really "pirated" when it was released into the public domain - for anyone to do anything with it?

It definitely feels scummy that someone would take the work and sell it when they did nothing to earn it, but it's completely within their rights.

jondalar1988 · Post by **jondalar1988** » October 5th, 2022, 1:01 pm

Indeed. I realize it's completely legal ...... but quite unethical! I spent 16 months recording and editing that work so people could access it freely, with no charge.

Post by **annise** » October 5th, 2022, 5:40 pm

It is annoying but would thinking that if you had been a paid reader the cost would be considerably higher so that they are helping to spread the word possibly to a new audience ?

Anne

jondalar1988 · Post by **jondalar1988** » October 5th, 2022, 5:45 pm

annise wrote: ↑October 5th, 2022, 5:40 pm It is annoying but would thinking that if you had been a paid reader the cost would be considerably higher so that they are helping to spread the word possibly to a new audience ?

Anne

I get your point, but there's still the question of ethics. Or does the ends justify the means? To me, it's no different than
knowingly selling stolen goods.

Post by **redrun** » October 5th, 2022, 6:20 pm

They are showing it to people who hadn't otherwise known about it, but $30 a head to spread the word (and do a little repackaging) seems like an expensive way of advertising a free book. Plus, I imagine you as the reader would be willing to accept a much lower price, if there has to be one at all...

But that does give an idea. If just anyone can publish a work to Audible, what's to prevent you from uploading them for free? And if it can't be free, perhaps a low "donation" price - and have the description link to the LibriVox original, if Audible allows that?

If it takes some effort, then perhaps some intrepid LibriVoxers can figure out the process, and volunteer to upload finished books if requested by the BC or readers. The root of the issue is that the free LibriVox audio books are not available where the listeners are searching for them. Maybe we can address that directly.

Edit:
See ACX Audio Submission Requirements. It does look like some technical work would have to go into the conversion, and if I were starting a reading to publish both here and there, I'd change the way I do things now... but it's certainly doable, particularly for solo projects.

sjmarky · Post by **sjmarky** » October 6th, 2022, 9:24 am

But that does give an idea. If just anyone can publish a work to Audible, what's to prevent you from uploading them for free? And if it can't be free, perhaps a low "donation" price - and have the description link to the LibriVox original, if Audible allows that.

Audible sets sales price, not the Rights Holder. Only Audible can decide to make an audiobook free, which they sometimes do and include it with member subscriptions. In general, the price is determined by the running time.

ChristopherW · Post by **ChristopherW** » October 6th, 2022, 10:06 am

jondalar1988 wrote: ↑October 5th, 2022, 1:01 pm Indeed. I realize it's completely legal ...... but quite unethical! I spent 16 months recording and editing that work so people could access it freely, with no charge.

But people can still access it for free here at LibriVox. Somebody selling it for $29.95 doesn't suddenly make it unavailable here.

Post by **redrun** » October 6th, 2022, 10:13 am

No, but they trick people into paying when they don't need to, and they get money for it. That's icky, and we do have civil laws for consumer protection that might have something to say about it... if their enforcement were in a better state than currently.

Actually, given the above, I'd say Audible is the biggest beneficiary of this asymmetry of information. But uploading books with Librivox disclaimers and links, then donating whatever proceeds Audible deigns to hand over, still seems workable.

Post by **lorda** » October 6th, 2022, 10:41 am

It doesn't really matter if other people make money from Librivox books.
When I started here, it was clear to me that my recordings are in the public domain. So record books, upload and done (forgot).
The aim of LV is, to make as many books as possible from the PD available as audio books for free - at least that's how I understood it.
Bad luck, if someone pays for audio books when they could have them for free. If others make money from it, it's not very nice, but unfortunately it's part of the system (Look at stock trading - the workers are exploited and the shareholders make the money).

jondalar1988 · Post by **jondalar1988** » October 6th, 2022, 1:21 pm

ChristopherW wrote: ↑October 6th, 2022, 10:06 am
jondalar1988 wrote: ↑October 5th, 2022, 1:01 pm Indeed. I realize it's completely legal ...... but quite unethical! I spent 16 months recording and editing that work so people could access it freely, with no charge.
But people can still access it for free here at LibriVox. Somebody selling it for $29.95 doesn't suddenly make it unavailable here.

You apparently misunderstood my complaint, completely.

InTheDesert · Post by **InTheDesert** » October 6th, 2022, 9:05 pm

You could write a review on Audible saying that you're the narrator and you want everyone to know that this is available for free on Librivox and that you're sad that someone has taken the recording and is charging for someone you wanted top be distributed freely.

Post by **annise** » October 6th, 2022, 9:41 pm

I can't believe I am supporting audible but ... . It's not free to store and distribute books - we rely on Internet Archive for distribution and storage and that is made possible by donations small and large to Internet Archive.

So a large number of people have donated money and time and expertise to enable any LV project to become freely available.
Go LV . Go Internet Archive. Go PG.

Anne

ChristopherW · Post by **ChristopherW** » October 10th, 2022, 5:38 pm

jondalar1988 wrote: ↑October 6th, 2022, 1:21 pm You apparently misunderstood my complaint, completely.

What is your complaint then? That people are voluntarily paying for something that they could have (and probably would have) gotten for free, if they only knew about the free option?

Frankly, I have no problem with this, and I don't see anything unethical about it. In my mind, the people paying for it either don't care enough or don't know enough to look for the free version. For those who don't care enough to look for the free version, this Audible seller has done them a service by offering the content in a convenient, easily accessible format on a well-known platform, and I say good for them.

For those who simply don't know about the free version, well that's a bit of a shame, but it's a completely voluntary and legitimate transaction between two (plus the middlemen at Audible) consenting parties. This sort of thing actually happens all the time--there may be a sale or a clearance on a product at a different retailer that you didn't know about when you bought that product, for example, and you could've gotten it cheaper if you only knew about it.

(This is a somewhat similar situation with Open Source software. Some companies are doing quite well selling something you can get for free (e.g., Red Hat Linux, now part of IBM), and there's nothing wrong with that either, as long as the specific Open Source licenses allow it, which most do.)

(Also, your comment about "knowingly selling stolen goods" is irrelevant, since the "goods" in this case is not "stolen"... it's freely given away with full permission to do anything with it, including selling copies of it.)

jondalar1988 · Post by **jondalar1988** » October 10th, 2022, 7:27 pm

Christopher,

Perhaps "complaint" was too strong a word. But I still have a negative feeling about the whole operation. In my pre-retirement life I was a member of AFTRA and was paid well for my voice work. I chose to record for Librivox because
I believe in their ambitious goal of making all the Public Domain stuff possible available for free. Obviously, that does
not preclude anyone from downloading it and selling it to the unsuspecting public. But, if they were really honest people,
they would include a blurb crediting Librivox as the source. Otherwise, the buyer has the impression that the author and/or
the reader is getting a cut of the profit. That's the part that makes it stick in the craw of many of us and, if you can't
understand that, I feel sorry for you. And, with that, I will have no more to say on the subject.