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mmsmall
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Post by mmsmall » November 7th, 2012, 10:34 am

I never noticed it before, but I bought a really nice mike, and suddenly my mouth is a noisefest of sticky saliva (eeeew!) which unfortunately comes from being a juvi diabetic...There is just NO WAY to completely control it, even with liquids...Sooo, I finally started adding a bunch of different smacks and tongue/saliva noises to the end of my recording and use them to filter out those that ungraciously invited themselves into my reading. It's been working pretty well - though, of course, not ALL of them are ALWAYS removed and usually it's in a passage that I feel I couldn't have done any better, so I leave it, rather than monkey around more and possibly make it worse. The ESS is sometimes really exaggerated too - more so, since it was pointed out to me, and I got SO selfconscious! I finally just started using a low pass filter rather than trying to think about it as I read - the flow suffered terribly...and for some reason the Italian xlation I was working on found every ESS word in the turn-of-the century dictionary...I honestly felt that every WORD included esses! The more I thought about it and tried to say ESSes differently the worse it got - then I sounded like I was LISPING...*groan* I'm finding it's just best to not worry about all of those things, enjoy the story you are working on and hope that the miracle of technology will cure the demons...and if not, the listeners will excuse a little clickiness and remember how hard we are working for them!
Lani Small

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Post by philchenevert » November 7th, 2012, 12:36 pm

I have 'solved' my mouth click, pop and smack noise problem by a simple expedient that will probably be looked at askance by other recorders. Indeed there may be a bit of tsk, tsking and even a touch of disapprobation and shaking of the wiser head. But I will stick my head out and share anyway because dat's de kind of guy I am.

With that in mind, this is what I do: The irritating stuff occurs between words and phrases when my lips and mouth make all those nasty noises that I only hear when listening to a recording. Instead of trying to zoom in and remove each of the 3 or four little clicks between each phrase, I have programmed a hot key that deamplifies the section by 18 dB. so if there are disgusting noises somewhere in a 'quiet' section, I just deamp the whole thing with a simple hot key stroke and move on. The spacing thus stays the same and it sounds just fine. (to me)

NOTE: This flies in the face of much agreement on these forums that the ambient noise should remain constant through a recording or the listener will notice the difference. Perhaps they can; perhaps they can't. I don't know but this technique eliminates most of my noises between words/phrases in a very quick and simple way. No filters needed, just highlight the section and pop it down with a keystroke. Clicks gone! I've done several hundred sections this way and hope they have not disturbed the listeners too much. Image

The esssses occur infrequently to me, but I just cut out the middle section and they seem much better.
Phil Chenevert, The LibriVox Video Guy
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jojowasaman
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Post by jojowasaman » November 13th, 2012, 2:30 pm

mmsmall wrote:I never noticed it before, but I bought a really nice mike, and suddenly my mouth is a noisefest of sticky saliva (eeeew!) which unfortunately comes from being a juvi diabetic...There is just NO WAY to completely control it, even with liquids...Sooo, I finally started adding a bunch of different smacks and tongue/saliva noises to the end of my recording and use them to filter out those that ungraciously invited themselves into my reading. It's been working pretty well - though, of course, not ALL of them are ALWAYS removed and...{snip}
Okay, I am a NooB at editing and am wondering how you edit/filter out most of the smacks and clicks from the file after adding some gratuitous ones at the end of the recording? In other words, I don't understand the process of filtering the clicks out by adding some at the end???
You can call me JJ or JoJo: either is fine.
Jojo was a man who thought he was a loner. But he knew it wouldn't last... "Get Back," The Beatles

gypsygirl
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Post by gypsygirl » November 13th, 2012, 2:41 pm

jojowasaman wrote:
mmsmall wrote:I never noticed it before, but I bought a really nice mike, and suddenly my mouth is a noisefest of sticky saliva (eeeew!) which unfortunately comes from being a juvi diabetic...There is just NO WAY to completely control it, even with liquids...Sooo, I finally started adding a bunch of different smacks and tongue/saliva noises to the end of my recording and use them to filter out those that ungraciously invited themselves into my reading. It's been working pretty well - though, of course, not ALL of them are ALWAYS removed and...{snip}
Okay, I am a NooB at editing and am wondering how you edit/filter out most of the smacks and clicks from the file after adding some gratuitous ones at the end of the recording? In other words, I don't understand the process of filtering the clicks out by adding some at the end???
When you go to noise clean, you need to give the program a sample of your background noise, and if you include a few mouth smacks and such in that sample, the noise cleaning utility will try to remove other such sounds when it comes across them.
Karen S.

jojowasaman
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Post by jojowasaman » November 14th, 2012, 10:04 am

gypsygirl wrote:
jojowasaman wrote:
mmsmall wrote:I never noticed it before, but I bought a really nice mike, and suddenly my mouth is a noisefest of sticky saliva (eeeew!) which unfortunately comes from being a juvi diabetic...There is just NO WAY to completely control it, even with liquids...Sooo, I finally started adding a bunch of different smacks and tongue/saliva noises to the end of my recording and use them to filter out those that ungraciously invited themselves into my reading. It's been working pretty well - though, of course, not ALL of them are ALWAYS removed and...{snip}
Okay, I am a NooB at editing and am wondering how you edit/filter out most of the smacks and clicks from the file after adding some gratuitous ones at the end of the recording? In other words, I don't understand the process of filtering the clicks out by adding some at the end???
When you go to noise clean, you need to give the program a sample of your background noise, and if you include a few mouth smacks and such in that sample, the noise cleaning utility will try to remove other such sounds when it comes across them.
Hi, I am using Audacity, which I have used (to edit) for a whopping 3 days. So are you talking about the "regular old" *noise reduction* tool? Or some other effect/filter? Because I am just learning as I go, and the only way I currently use noise reduction is to grab an area of my track that is level (pure background noise) and use that to "Get the Noise Profile" and then apply it to the entire track. Can I also grab a noise profile from a portion of the track that has clicks and pops in it? Is that what you are saying?

Also, I just noticed an effect in Audacity, "Click Removal," which I never tried. Does that effect/filter work well? (In fact, I have never edited in Audacity before two days ago--and I have watched like 24 of Phil's videos, which, as he knows, have been extremely helpful.)
You can call me JJ or JoJo: either is fine.
Jojo was a man who thought he was a loner. But he knew it wouldn't last... "Get Back," The Beatles

RuthieG
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Post by RuthieG » November 14th, 2012, 11:15 am

The thing about Noise Removal is that it isn't magic. Audacity can't recognise particular sounds and remove them. The Noise Removal effect identifies particular frequencies and reduces them by whatever dB level you have set.

Now, the sound of disgusting mouth noises can be all over the spectrum - I know because I have just tried making them and looked at Analyze | Plot Spectrum. If I use Effect | Noise Removal, it will reduce them, certainly, but it will also reduce anything else that uses those frequencies. As mouth noises can be of surprisingly high volume (especially those tongue/palate smacks) I think it is highly unlikely that noise removal will remove them without also removing a large proportion of your voice.

I am willing to be convinced, but at the moment, I am a considerable sceptic.

As for Click Removal, I have never met anyone who has said it worked.


Ruth
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philchenevert
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Post by philchenevert » November 14th, 2012, 1:06 pm

Audacity says that Noise Reduction is aimed at
This effect is ideal for removing constant background noise such as fans, tape noise, or hums
. I agree with Ruth that if you include clicks and stuff (like I mistakenly did at first) it will valiantly reduce the volume of those frequencies and they are right in the middle of speech range usually, hence my voice was sounding strange. Now I just use the quiet parts for the sample, with no speaking or other stuff.

Also, I confess that I have many clicks, pops, smacks and other disgusting mouth noises that show up in between words and phrases. (If you have watched my videos you know what I mean) Click Removal? Nope. It will work IF I have an extra three hours to track down each noise, zoom way in and take it out. Instead of removing each of the hundreds of clicks individually by zooming in and cutting it out, I now just highlight the space with the obnoxious noises and deal with all of them in that space with a Hot Key stroke that reduces dB by 18. And this leaves the spacing the same which is a big plus for me. Sure, this is unorthodox and may be looked at askance by some. But it works for me. Image The same effect can be achieved by highlighting the space and de amplifying but that is too time consuming.
Phil Chenevert, The LibriVox Video Guy
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rf
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Post by rf » December 4th, 2012, 9:10 am

A note about a previous tip:

[quote="Algy Pug"]Here's an easy tip which works well for me for general noise reduction:

Place a heavy cloth under your laptop and one under your microphone stand. Placing a heavy book under your laptop can have a similar beneficial effect.

Cheers

Algy Pug[/quote]

Please be careful of using cloths or foam under a laptop. Most laptops have cooling holes at or near the bottom. If those cooling holes are blocked, then the laptop can overheat. I believe that most modern laptops will automatically shutdown in an overheat. However, the overheat shutdown will be inconvenient and may even cause the loss of work. Also, in the longer term, repeated overheat events shorten the life of the hardware.

rf

carolb
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Post by carolb » December 4th, 2012, 9:38 am

I have a picnic blanket on the table, on which the microphone stands,
together with an upturned oblong wicker bread basket.* My laptop sits on that.

Carol

*It's the open lattice weave variety, so nice and airy!

sjmarky
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Post by sjmarky » June 12th, 2013, 7:44 pm

Over the last year, I've had the opportunity to attend three audiobook workshops in LA, which is only about a 5-hour drive from San Jose. I did two Pat Fraley workshops with Scott Brick and Hillary Huber in 2012, and last April attended one by director Paul Ruben. There were nine other attendees in the Fraley workshops, and four in the Ruben, so I got to experience not only my own direction and feedback, but hear many others. The direction I heard over and over again, from all the pro's, is "Tone it down. Less voice. Don't push. Trust the author and the listener. You're not announcing a book AT the listener, you're letting the listener PARTICIPATE in the book."

Paul Ruben was the most amazing. He had a narrator read her selection. Then he said, "Okay, now do it agin, with half that voice." She re-read. He was right: I heard the improvement. But then, "Okay, now do it again, with HALF THAT MUCH VOICE AGAIN." Again, it was better!

I did my piece. He stops me. "LESS VOICE!" he shouts. I try again. "LESS VOICE! Can you do stage whisper?" Sure, I say, and do it again. "BETTER! But flatter! LESS VOICE!! DON'T PUSH! DO NOT EMPHASIZE A SINGLE WORD!"

Sounds crazy? Boring? I'm now barely making any sound at all. Then "GOOD! Now whisper!" Finally, he lets me finish the piece. I've listened to the recording of this several times. And he's dead right. Less is more. And even less is even more.

The selection was from Wool, a recent sci-fi I enjoyed. I just listened to the sample from the commercial version on Audible. The narrator is over-dramatic. Big. And her reviews are pretty bad.

Paul also contributes to Voiceoverxtra.com. The main post is here: http://www.voiceoverxtra.com/article.htm?id=33m0n32p

Click on "audiobooks" and you can find more.

FLAT FLAT FLAT! LESS LESS LESS!
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RuthieG
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Post by RuthieG » June 12th, 2013, 11:52 pm

DO NOT EMPHASIZE A SINGLE WORD
FLAT FLAT FLAT! LESS LESS LESS!
Perhaps this is a UK/US thing. One of the UK reviews of the Audible version of Wool said,
The other was that, although the narration was overall very good, it was a bit flat and monotone and at times I just craved a bit of expression here and there.
I listened to the first few sentences, and the problem I heard was indeed too much emphasis on unimportant words... but no emphasis at all? I should fall asleep within minutes, as I do listening to many 'flat' recordings. I should probably even fall asleep recording ;).

A matter of taste, perhaps? :?


Ruth
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moniaqua
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Post by moniaqua » June 13th, 2013, 1:02 am

sjmarky wrote:DO NOT EMPHASIZE A SINGLE WORD!"
It might be due to misunderstanding or a cultural thing, but that really sounds strange to me and it is against all I've learned for reading at school, for rhetoric, for singing and probably, if I had found the time, against what I would have learned for acting.

I totally agree that there exists something like being over-dramatic. But "flat", "less" and "do not emphasize" to me sounds like "send her to sleep immediately" which is fine for a meditation, but not for a drama or (exciting) book. Maybe the middle is the right spot, depending on the book a bit more to the left or a bit more to the right?

RuthieG
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Post by RuthieG » June 13th, 2013, 2:21 am

Oh, I see... it is a method of eliminating Phony Baloney Emphasis Syndrome.

Well. That does assume that you suffer from Phony Baloney Emphasis Syndrome in the first place.

Ruth
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annise
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Post by annise » June 13th, 2013, 2:44 am

I did rather like
you're letting the listener PARTICIPATE in the book
. Sometimes I think I'm the only person in the world who doesn't want to think about the reader at all when I listen :D

Anne

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Post by ppcunningham » June 13th, 2013, 7:02 am

I agree with Ruthie on this one.

It sounds to me as though he was trying to train the students away from using their third-grade Read-Out-Loud voice, (or worse, Melodramatic) into reading in an intimate conversational voice, which is less artificial.
But monotone? Never! I don't want someone telling me the words - I want them to tell me the story. If I just wanted to hear the words, I could have the computer read it. Listening to a flat reading makes me think the reader isn't interested in the material - and if they aren't, why should I be?

I say leave the monotone for The Insomnia Collection......

Patti
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