My microphone needs a preamp - any advice?
-
philchenevert
- LibriVox Admin Team
- Posts: 24589
- Joined: October 17th, 2010, 9:23 pm
- Location: Basking by the Bayou
- Contact:
Hi all. I have a Heil PR4 microphone now but it needs a preamp to connect to my PC. Any advice on the simplest way to rig this up? It needs phantom power and a small mixer would not be bad either. I will only use this microphone to record or LibriVox, monoral track stuff so nothing fancy there. Anyway, thanks for any and all advice. It will be connedted to my PC of course.
Phil,
(I presume you mean PR40.)
You likely need an audio interface, which is going to supply phantom power and convert your analog signal into digital samples that Audacity will be able to read and store. You plug one into one of your USB 2.0 ports, and it could feed off it too. There are some that plug into a thunderbolt port, and those are usually somewhat higher-end.
I had a Presonus AudioBox iOne, but changed it to a Behringer U-Phoria UMC204HD. I've been using the latter with a condenser and a dynamic mic (just not at the same time). It supplies 48v of the phantom power and has decent preamps.
Why would you need a mixer? Your software can be the mixer...
Anyway, I think you meant an audio interface, and that's why I replied. There are very many to choose from. You can get a used one for less than $60 delivered, probably.
(I presume you mean PR40.)
You likely need an audio interface, which is going to supply phantom power and convert your analog signal into digital samples that Audacity will be able to read and store. You plug one into one of your USB 2.0 ports, and it could feed off it too. There are some that plug into a thunderbolt port, and those are usually somewhat higher-end.
I had a Presonus AudioBox iOne, but changed it to a Behringer U-Phoria UMC204HD. I've been using the latter with a condenser and a dynamic mic (just not at the same time). It supplies 48v of the phantom power and has decent preamps.
Why would you need a mixer? Your software can be the mixer...
Anyway, I think you meant an audio interface, and that's why I replied. There are very many to choose from. You can get a used one for less than $60 delivered, probably.
tovarisch
- reality prompts me to scale down my reading, sorry to say
to PLers: do correct my pronunciation please
-
philchenevert
- LibriVox Admin Team
- Posts: 24589
- Joined: October 17th, 2010, 9:23 pm
- Location: Basking by the Bayou
- Contact:
I was hoping you would reply Tovarich; you know a lot about these technical things. I don't need a mixer, just saw it mentioned along with a preamp.
So I need an audio interface that will supply phantom power to the microphone and convert the analog to digital. I just want something that will pass the sound through to Audacity without distortion. That is exactly what I needed to know. The PR40 mic has a special plug with three prongs that must fit into the interface and I presume the Behringer has one of these. It actually looks like the exact thing I need. Since I got the mic at a real bargain, I can afford whatever it takes to make it work. !!! Thanks.
Any other advice?
EDIT: I see that interface has two inputs; what about this one with only one? https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/UMC22--behringer-u-phoria-umc22
again, the price is not important, just the simplicity and quality of output for my recording tracks.
So I need an audio interface that will supply phantom power to the microphone and convert the analog to digital. I just want something that will pass the sound through to Audacity without distortion. That is exactly what I needed to know. The PR40 mic has a special plug with three prongs that must fit into the interface and I presume the Behringer has one of these. It actually looks like the exact thing I need. Since I got the mic at a real bargain, I can afford whatever it takes to make it work. !!! Thanks.
Any other advice?EDIT: I see that interface has two inputs; what about this one with only one? https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/UMC22--behringer-u-phoria-umc22
again, the price is not important, just the simplicity and quality of output for my recording tracks.
Phil,
Your PR40 mic is a dynamic mic so it doesn't actually need phantom power. Dynamic mics work in a simple fashion (usually coils and magnets) so they don't require any external power. Most audio interfaces have a switch that allows you turn phantom power on/off - just leave it turned off. If you did turn it on then your mic would almost certainly survive, but some mics can be damaged by unwanted power, so it's good practice to only switch it on when it's required.
One issue with dynamic mics is that some of them have a low output level so they need a lot of amplification. The PR40 is slightly on the high side for dynamics so you shouldn't have a problem. As Tovarisch says, any audio interface will do the job. Look on somewhere like SweetWater for USB audio interfaces. I'd avoid the very cheap ones because they can be a bit hissy when you turn up the amplification. They should all work fine with your mic.
The 3 prong thing is an XLR connector. You'll need an XLR microphone cable to connect your mic to the audio interface. Mics and audio interfaces don't usually supply those in the box, so you'll probably have to buy one separately. Anywhere that sells the interfaces will also sell the mic cables - just order one in a length that suits your setup.
Hope that helps,
-Ian
ETA: I seem to remember that you used a Heil mic in the past(?), so you probably know this already, but just in case... The PR40 looks like a regular condenser mic so people often speak in to the side of it. You actually need to speak in to the end of it. It's a common mistake, so I thought it's worth mentioning. I hope you have lots of fun recording with it...
Your PR40 mic is a dynamic mic so it doesn't actually need phantom power. Dynamic mics work in a simple fashion (usually coils and magnets) so they don't require any external power. Most audio interfaces have a switch that allows you turn phantom power on/off - just leave it turned off. If you did turn it on then your mic would almost certainly survive, but some mics can be damaged by unwanted power, so it's good practice to only switch it on when it's required.
One issue with dynamic mics is that some of them have a low output level so they need a lot of amplification. The PR40 is slightly on the high side for dynamics so you shouldn't have a problem. As Tovarisch says, any audio interface will do the job. Look on somewhere like SweetWater for USB audio interfaces. I'd avoid the very cheap ones because they can be a bit hissy when you turn up the amplification. They should all work fine with your mic.
The 3 prong thing is an XLR connector. You'll need an XLR microphone cable to connect your mic to the audio interface. Mics and audio interfaces don't usually supply those in the box, so you'll probably have to buy one separately. Anywhere that sells the interfaces will also sell the mic cables - just order one in a length that suits your setup.
Hope that helps,
-Ian
ETA: I seem to remember that you used a Heil mic in the past(?), so you probably know this already, but just in case... The PR40 looks like a regular condenser mic so people often speak in to the side of it. You actually need to speak in to the end of it. It's a common mistake, so I thought it's worth mentioning. I hope you have lots of fun recording with it...
-
philchenevert
- LibriVox Admin Team
- Posts: 24589
- Joined: October 17th, 2010, 9:23 pm
- Location: Basking by the Bayou
- Contact:
Thank you Greyhouse for explaing things in a way that I can understand them. I did not know that about dynamic microphones, speaking into the end of them I mean and I did not know that this is one of them, I presumed it needed that phantom power. Gee it's nice to have people like you and Tovarisch who share your knowledge so willingly.
About 'cheap', would this be too cheap? https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/UMC22--behringer-u-phoria-umc22 I don't see any switch for phantom power on it to turn off.
or would this one be better? https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/UMC204HD--behringer-u-phoria-umc204hd
Is there any other filter that I need to run the signal through before it gets to my PC? Just asking because I am afraid of background house hum getting into the recording.
Thanks again for any and all information and suggestions.
About 'cheap', would this be too cheap? https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/UMC22--behringer-u-phoria-umc22 I don't see any switch for phantom power on it to turn off.
or would this one be better? https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/UMC204HD--behringer-u-phoria-umc204hd
Is there any other filter that I need to run the signal through before it gets to my PC? Just asking because I am afraid of background house hum getting into the recording.
Thanks again for any and all information and suggestions.
Hi Phil,
On the Behringer U-Phoria UMC22, the Phantom power switch is the one on the back marked "+48V" - so it has switchable phantom power.
As far as 'cheap' goes, I like cheap gear because it's accessible to everyone and, well, it's cheap! But it's my experience that corners get cut on the cheaper interfaces. Both of those Behringer models seem to have the same type of preamp in them, and most of the reviews of the cheaper model are very favourable - they don't mention hiss as being a problem, so it may be worth a go. The bigger model has lots of features that you won't use, so you'd be paying extra for, perhaps, no real benefit. If you're buying from Sweetwater then I'm sure they have a good returns policy, so you have that to fall back on. I've not used either of those, so I think the reviews are a better guide than my opinions.
On the hum issue. One advantage of USB audio interfaces is that everything is powered from your computer (by the USB cable). They rarely use a separate power supply, so they naturally avoid the problem of ground loops. You shouldn't have a problem. If you do, we'll cross that bridge when we get to it.
Hope that helps,
-Ian
On the Behringer U-Phoria UMC22, the Phantom power switch is the one on the back marked "+48V" - so it has switchable phantom power.
As far as 'cheap' goes, I like cheap gear because it's accessible to everyone and, well, it's cheap! But it's my experience that corners get cut on the cheaper interfaces. Both of those Behringer models seem to have the same type of preamp in them, and most of the reviews of the cheaper model are very favourable - they don't mention hiss as being a problem, so it may be worth a go. The bigger model has lots of features that you won't use, so you'd be paying extra for, perhaps, no real benefit. If you're buying from Sweetwater then I'm sure they have a good returns policy, so you have that to fall back on. I've not used either of those, so I think the reviews are a better guide than my opinions.
On the hum issue. One advantage of USB audio interfaces is that everything is powered from your computer (by the USB cable). They rarely use a separate power supply, so they naturally avoid the problem of ground loops. You shouldn't have a problem. If you do, we'll cross that bridge when we get to it.
Hope that helps,
-Ian
Phil,
As far as being able to drive a dynamic microphone, interfaces can differ somewhat. I've seen people recommending an additional preamp for some dynamic mics, especially the demanding ones (I have no experience with PR40). I have an RE320 and to get a reasonable signal I need to turn the gain knob almost to the max (which also adds some self-noise) on my UMC. But not enough to justify noise-cleaning. Check out my recent solo project, they are virtually raw recordings (except for editing/cutting).
I am not sure whether UMC22 and UMC204HD have the same preamps, but for LV purposes it probably does not matter much. The main difference is that the HD has 192kHz DAC (I was wrong: needs to be "ADC" - tovairisch), and the 22 has the lower top DAC (ought to say: ADC) frequency (96kHz?). Again, for LV it probably does not matter much, if you're going to stick to 44.1kHz.
Some folks swear by Focusrite, and you can probably find a reasonably priced used one on *bay. Don't get bogged down by details, get something (don't forget an XLR cable, you only need a short one, or a longer one that you keep coiled, like I do). They are all essentially plug-n-play, no problem with drivers, I am sure.
Edited: I said "DAC", and I should have said "ADC". Sorry about that.
As far as being able to drive a dynamic microphone, interfaces can differ somewhat. I've seen people recommending an additional preamp for some dynamic mics, especially the demanding ones (I have no experience with PR40). I have an RE320 and to get a reasonable signal I need to turn the gain knob almost to the max (which also adds some self-noise) on my UMC. But not enough to justify noise-cleaning. Check out my recent solo project, they are virtually raw recordings (except for editing/cutting).
I am not sure whether UMC22 and UMC204HD have the same preamps, but for LV purposes it probably does not matter much. The main difference is that the HD has 192kHz DAC (I was wrong: needs to be "ADC" - tovairisch), and the 22 has the lower top DAC (ought to say: ADC) frequency (96kHz?). Again, for LV it probably does not matter much, if you're going to stick to 44.1kHz.
Some folks swear by Focusrite, and you can probably find a reasonably priced used one on *bay. Don't get bogged down by details, get something (don't forget an XLR cable, you only need a short one, or a longer one that you keep coiled, like I do). They are all essentially plug-n-play, no problem with drivers, I am sure.
Edited: I said "DAC", and I should have said "ADC". Sorry about that.
Last edited by tovarisch on September 11th, 2018, 7:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
tovarisch
- reality prompts me to scale down my reading, sorry to say
to PLers: do correct my pronunciation please
I too have slight reservations about whether the interfaces you're looking at will have enough gain. You won't know until you try.
Some of the PR40 reviews on Amazon say they're using upwards of 55dB of preamp gain for voice work. That's quite a lot of gain, though not uncommon for low output dynamic mics. The Behringer UMC interfaces seem to have a maximum gain of 56dB, so you're going to need to use it close to its maximum, which is the point where the noise often gets worse.
The low/mid-priced audio interfaces rarely go higher than about 55dB of gain.
People who need a lot more gain use a dedicated mic preamp in addition to an audio interface - but that's a considerably more expensive solution. One way of buying some extra gain is to use a Cloudlifter. You plug it in between the mic and the audio interface, and it transparently boosts the mic level - many people love them. They're not exactly cheap but they're a lot cheaper than a dedicated preamp. You could try the Behringer (or some other) audio interface and keep the Cloudlifter option in reserve if you find you need a bit more gain.
Some of the PR40 reviews on Amazon say they're using upwards of 55dB of preamp gain for voice work. That's quite a lot of gain, though not uncommon for low output dynamic mics. The Behringer UMC interfaces seem to have a maximum gain of 56dB, so you're going to need to use it close to its maximum, which is the point where the noise often gets worse.
The low/mid-priced audio interfaces rarely go higher than about 55dB of gain.
People who need a lot more gain use a dedicated mic preamp in addition to an audio interface - but that's a considerably more expensive solution. One way of buying some extra gain is to use a Cloudlifter. You plug it in between the mic and the audio interface, and it transparently boosts the mic level - many people love them. They're not exactly cheap but they're a lot cheaper than a dedicated preamp. You could try the Behringer (or some other) audio interface and keep the Cloudlifter option in reserve if you find you need a bit more gain.
Cloudlifter can set you back as much as $150 
- that's really not necessary. What you do is set the gain to its highest, go 24 bit, and amplify afterwards if necessary.
- that's really not necessary. What you do is set the gain to its highest, go 24 bit, and amplify afterwards if necessary.tovarisch
- reality prompts me to scale down my reading, sorry to say
to PLers: do correct my pronunciation please
-
philchenevert
- LibriVox Admin Team
- Posts: 24589
- Joined: October 17th, 2010, 9:23 pm
- Location: Basking by the Bayou
- Contact:
I just ordered the interface for $40 from Sweetwater. I bet it is going to work great. Thanks for the advice. I won't bother with an amp unless this is not strong enough.
Remember an XLR cable... If you forgot to order one, you can get one from a local Guitar Center (or similar) store. See if they sell you a used one for a couple bucks...
tovarisch
- reality prompts me to scale down my reading, sorry to say
to PLers: do correct my pronunciation please
-
philchenevert
- LibriVox Admin Team
- Posts: 24589
- Joined: October 17th, 2010, 9:23 pm
- Location: Basking by the Bayou
- Contact:
I have one that connects to the rear of the mic "RHC low noise balanced microphone cable" so I am hoping that will work. If not, I will head to my local Music store .....
I had a PR40 some years ago, and some preamp/interfaces did not have enough gain. An M-Audio did not. I had to get what was then an Xbox (defunct now). I'm currently using a Focusrite with a condenser, and I doubt, but have never tested it, that it has enough gain for the Heil. I'd talk to a tech at Sweetwater to get good options that won't cost too much.