The Demian Dilemma

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pokrovsky
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Post by pokrovsky » May 1st, 2013, 4:22 pm

Hello.

I recently signed up for Librivox with the intent to read Demian by Hermann Hesse: a relatively short novel that had a profound impact on me. However, intention and follow-through are two different things and already I've run into some barriers.

The text was written in 1918 and as such, it is in the public domain (http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/41907). However, if you follow that link, you'll see, just as I did, that the only version on Project Gutenberg is in the original German. After digging around (read: checking Demian's Wikipedia page), I found that the first English translation was written in 1923 by N. H. Priday, which would make it, too, public domain (I think). The only problem is, I haven't had any luck finding a copy of this text electronically or even a physical copy of that specific translation. The edition I was planning to read features a different translation written in 1965.

So what are my options here? Do I need to track down this 1923 translation? Should I force my German friend to re-translate the novel for me? If I were to find a version using the 1923 translation, would I have to get it on Gutenberg before I could read it? I'm beginning to get a sneaking suspicion that copyright law is a very obtuse, complicated thing.
"The only true and lasting meaning of the struggle for life lies in the individual, in his modest peculiarities and his right to these peculiarities.”
― Vasily Grossman

TriciaG
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Post by TriciaG » May 1st, 2013, 4:45 pm

It IS a problem.

1922 is the cutoff, so it's not certain that the first translation is public domain. It would have to be proven that the copyright wasn't renewed on it, and then like you say, FIND the text!

We don't do self-translations (or friend-translations), since we only work from previously published works. So I'm afraid this is going to be a major obstacle for doing this particular work. :(
Mystery/PulpFic: Dope, by Sax Rohmer
The one that started them all: Self-Help, by Samuel Smiles
Elizabethan Poetry: The Psalmes of David
Boring works 30-70 minutes long: Insomnia Collection 5
Short essays: Elia, and The Last Essays of Elia

pokrovsky
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Post by pokrovsky » May 1st, 2013, 4:53 pm

Well, thanks for the help, I guess I'll get looking and wait a year
"The only true and lasting meaning of the struggle for life lies in the individual, in his modest peculiarities and his right to these peculiarities.”
― Vasily Grossman

TriciaG
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Post by TriciaG » May 1st, 2013, 4:58 pm

If only it were that soon.

A work published in 1923 with its copyright renewed isn't entering the public domain until 95 years after publication, or January 1, 2019. That's the earliest that anything "new" will enter the PD. :(
Mystery/PulpFic: Dope, by Sax Rohmer
The one that started them all: Self-Help, by Samuel Smiles
Elizabethan Poetry: The Psalmes of David
Boring works 30-70 minutes long: Insomnia Collection 5
Short essays: Elia, and The Last Essays of Elia

msfry
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Post by msfry » February 7th, 2019, 8:18 am

Well, the 1923 translation of Demian, by N. H. Priday is now PD, and I've been looking all over for it.

It's available on IA's Open Library, but not as an eBook
https://openlibrary.org/books/OL6653656M/Demian

Also can be purchased from Barnes & Nobles in paperback.
https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/demian-hermann-hesse/1100158750

I haven't found it in Gutenberg yet.

What are my options here? Any advice much appreciated.
Michele Fry, CC
"There is no frigate like a book to take us lands away, Nor any coursers like a page of prancing poetry." ~ Emily Dickinson

Love Stories #3

TriciaG
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Post by TriciaG » February 7th, 2019, 11:15 am

LSU has it in their special collections: https://lsulibraries.worldcat.org/title/demian/oclc/5685440
https://lsu.ent.sirsi.net/client/en_US/lsu/search/results/?qu=5685440&rt=false%7C%7C%7COCLC_CUSTOM%7C%7C%7COCLC&te=SD_LSU

Perhaps there's a way to get access to it and take digital photos of the pages, so they can be put on Archive?
Mystery/PulpFic: Dope, by Sax Rohmer
The one that started them all: Self-Help, by Samuel Smiles
Elizabethan Poetry: The Psalmes of David
Boring works 30-70 minutes long: Insomnia Collection 5
Short essays: Elia, and The Last Essays of Elia

msfry
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Post by msfry » February 7th, 2019, 12:14 pm

What if I buy the paperback from Barnes and Nobles, and scan the pages in myself and turn them over to IA. Do they accept member donations, and is this acceptable to LV?
Michele Fry, CC
"There is no frigate like a book to take us lands away, Nor any coursers like a page of prancing poetry." ~ Emily Dickinson

Love Stories #3

Boomcoach
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Post by Boomcoach » February 7th, 2019, 12:17 pm

To scan in for a PD copy, it needs to be the actual 1923 edition, not a reprint, from what I understand. A library might be willing to allow their copy to be scanned. I know that scanning an old book can be hard on it.
Boomcoach (my Catalog Page)

TriciaG
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Post by TriciaG » February 7th, 2019, 12:37 pm

I know that scanning an old book can be hard on it.
Which is why I suggested digital photos instead. Not only is scanning hard on the book binding, it's also hard on the scanner. I burned out the bulb in our scanner doing that with a book!
Mystery/PulpFic: Dope, by Sax Rohmer
The one that started them all: Self-Help, by Samuel Smiles
Elizabethan Poetry: The Psalmes of David
Boring works 30-70 minutes long: Insomnia Collection 5
Short essays: Elia, and The Last Essays of Elia

plaidsicle
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Post by plaidsicle » February 7th, 2019, 4:07 pm

TriciaG wrote:
February 7th, 2019, 11:15 am
LSU has it in their special collections: https://lsulibraries.worldcat.org/title/demian/oclc/5685440
https://lsu.ent.sirsi.net/client/en_US/lsu/search/results/?qu=5685440&rt=false%7C%7C%7COCLC_CUSTOM%7C%7C%7COCLC&te=SD_LSU

Perhaps there's a way to get access to it and take digital photos of the pages, so they can be put on Archive?
I bet I could get my hand on it via inter-library loan pretty easily. (I'm at another Louisiana university in the same system). and our library has a KIC book/document scanner that's not too tricky to use. how long is the book? maybe scanning it can be one of my spring break projects if we're still in need of a digital copy by then.
'whenever people agree with me I always feel I must be wrong.' -Oscar Wilde
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TriciaG
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Post by TriciaG » February 7th, 2019, 4:14 pm

In the LSU book description, it says 215 pages.
Mystery/PulpFic: Dope, by Sax Rohmer
The one that started them all: Self-Help, by Samuel Smiles
Elizabethan Poetry: The Psalmes of David
Boring works 30-70 minutes long: Insomnia Collection 5
Short essays: Elia, and The Last Essays of Elia

msfry
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Post by msfry » February 7th, 2019, 6:55 pm

TriciaG wrote:
February 7th, 2019, 12:37 pm
I know that scanning an old book can be hard on it.
Which is why I suggested digital photos instead. Not only is scanning hard on the book binding, it's also hard on the scanner. I burned out the bulb in our scanner doing that with a book!
And if I do get to scan or photograph it, what do I do with that to make it usable for LV purposes?
Michele Fry, CC
"There is no frigate like a book to take us lands away, Nor any coursers like a page of prancing poetry." ~ Emily Dickinson

Love Stories #3

TriciaG
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Post by TriciaG » February 7th, 2019, 6:59 pm

Upload it to Archive. Then it'll be accessible for everyone, and available as a source for us. :)

The basic steps are:
- Separate the pages into separate images, if you've done more than one page per image
- Convert the whole thing into a PDF
- Upload it to Archive

Someone recently did this with... one of the Oz books, I think?? You could get more details from her, if you need them.
Mystery/PulpFic: Dope, by Sax Rohmer
The one that started them all: Self-Help, by Samuel Smiles
Elizabethan Poetry: The Psalmes of David
Boring works 30-70 minutes long: Insomnia Collection 5
Short essays: Elia, and The Last Essays of Elia

msfry
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Joined: June 4th, 2013, 9:09 am
Location: Baton Rouge, Louisiana
Contact:

Post by msfry » February 7th, 2019, 9:14 pm

I will investigate. How does Gutenberg decide which books to put into their database. Maybe I could alert them to scan in Demian. Do they have a team with special credentials or can anyone submit texts? How does their legal team verify the edition used? Same with IA. Just cause it's on IA doesn't mean it's PD. Anyone can store anything on IA can't they?

I'd like to hear from LV'ers who have done this. I know we have active Project Gutenberg'ers on LV.

CALLING ALL EXPERTS.
Michele Fry, CC
"There is no frigate like a book to take us lands away, Nor any coursers like a page of prancing poetry." ~ Emily Dickinson

Love Stories #3

annise
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Post by annise » February 7th, 2019, 9:50 pm

you are right about Archive, But if it's a scan that includes a readable publishing date that is 1923 or earlier we will accept it
You can upload things to Archive you just need to register and follow the upload instructions.
It is possible to get a clearance for PD texts as long as you can present them with a published date.
There are instructions that tell you exactly what to do on their site. It's better to use the sites instructions for most things

Anne

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