Pronunciation help: all languages

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mostlyantlers
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Post by mostlyantlers » November 12th, 2017, 3:08 pm

There are also some Aboriginal names - any advice with those?

annise
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Post by annise » November 12th, 2017, 3:37 pm

No - it was very early contact and each settler just tried to make up a spelling as to how it sounded to him. Added to that there were many language groups. So just as it looks is the only way to go. It was first contact between 2 completely different ways of life.

Anne

msfry
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Post by msfry » December 14th, 2017, 4:19 pm

Could someone help me read this, I believe it is in Italian:

"Ed io, che posto son con loro in croce
... e certo
La fiera moglie, più ch' altro, mi nuoce

Inferno, Canto, XVI., Longfellow's translation:

'And I, who with them on the cross am placed,
... truly
My savage wife, more than aught else, doth harm me.'


Most appreciated for my solo, Lady Byron Vindicated
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pschempf
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Post by pschempf » December 14th, 2017, 5:37 pm

Hi Michelle-

If you plug that text into Google Translate, identify the source language (yes, Italian) and the target language, it not only translates it, but you can hear it spoken in either the source or target language by clicking on the speaker icon at the bottom of the corresponding text box.

If you click the icon a second time it will repeat it, but more slowly which helps me sort out what is actually being said.
Fritz

"A small daily task, if it be really daily, will beat the labors of a spasmodic Hercules."

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msfry
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Post by msfry » December 14th, 2017, 5:51 pm

Really. Isn't the internet fantastic!!!! You also. Thanks for sharing this resource. I will bookmark it.
Michele Fry, CC
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pschempf
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Post by pschempf » December 14th, 2017, 5:56 pm

I'm not sure how accurate it is, but from my minimal acquaintance with Italian as a singer I think it is fairly close. I tested your text and accidentally translated it into French. :roll: Lots of choices - so if you want to hear the Divine Comedy in Swahili you're all set. :D
Fritz

"A small daily task, if it be really daily, will beat the labors of a spasmodic Hercules."

Trollope

Kitty
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Post by Kitty » December 15th, 2017, 2:42 am

Michelle, while I agree that google translate is for many languages a good first source to get the pronunciation, they are not infallible. First many are computer-generated and the problem there is that the intonation (so important in poetry) gets lost because a computer simply "rattles it off word by word".

I listened to the Dante excerpt on google and found an error. The problem is the "ch' " which is the abbreviation of "che" and should only be read "k" (with a slight mute 'e') attached to the vowel which comes after in the word "altro". The computer didn't know what to do with this abbreviation, and simply spelled out both letters in Italian, saying "Tshi - Acca" which means "Cee - Aitch" in Italian letters. And that is plainly wrong in this context, as it should be spoken "k-altro", and not "tshi-acca altro"

I made you a soundfile so you can compare it with a human voice. The intonation and cadence is how I would speak this line in the poem, to give it meaning and the word "k-altro" is correct.

https://librivox.org/uploads/kitty/italian_msfry.mp3

Sonia

msfry
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Post by msfry » December 15th, 2017, 10:33 am

Thank you, Sonia! I shall paste your snippet into my project, then "repeat after thee" until I get it right. This way I can slow down the tempo to start, then speed it up as I get more fluent. Having the actual file is easier than playing the Google version over and over from the beginning, but that is also a great resource when a live person can't be found.
Michele Fry, CC
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"Knowing that a tomato is actually a fruit is Knowledge. Wisdom is not putting one in a fruit salad."
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Kitty
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Post by Kitty » December 15th, 2017, 11:04 am

msfry wrote:This way I can slow down the tempo to start, then speed it up as I get more fluent.
oh yes I'm sorry, I didn't think about reading a slower version first :? I probably should have done that to make it easier for you. Do you manage or shall I speak it slower once more ? But not tonight, I can do it tomorrow morning then.

Sonia

msfry
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Post by msfry » December 15th, 2017, 11:20 am

Not necessary at all, Sonia. With the Tempo Effect in Audacity, I can make you sound slow as molasses, or chattering as fast as the Chipmunks! I can also cheat by saying it slowly and deliberately, then speed mine up to a normal pace. That Audacity -- great program.
Michele Fry, CC
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"Knowing that a tomato is actually a fruit is Knowledge. Wisdom is not putting one in a fruit salad."
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mightyfelix
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Post by mightyfelix » February 19th, 2018, 12:44 pm

I need to know how to say this phrase: "Mais il y a des longuers."

I've picked up a few chapters in The Heavenly Twins, and will probably be doing more as soon as I've finished these, but this book is positively peppered with French, German, Latin, and I don't know what all. So I'll probably be back with more phrases in the near future! :roll:
Devorah Allen

Journal of Francis Asbury Traveling preacher, America
The Crook in the Lot Faith in the midst of trials
20th C. Negro Lit. Essays on African American issues
Faces in the Fire Essays on Faith

Kitty
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Post by Kitty » February 19th, 2018, 12:54 pm

mightyfelix wrote:
February 19th, 2018, 12:44 pm
I need to know how to say this phrase: "Mais il y a des longuers."
do you mean "longueurs" ? (one 'u' more after the 'e')

I can make you a soundfile if you wish. Just confirming the word. It would mean "there are lengths".

Sonia

mightyfelix
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Post by mightyfelix » February 19th, 2018, 12:58 pm

Kitty wrote:
February 19th, 2018, 12:54 pm
mightyfelix wrote:
February 19th, 2018, 12:44 pm
I need to know how to say this phrase: "Mais il y a des longuers."
do you mean "longueurs" ? (one 'u' more after the 'e')

I can make you a soundfile if you wish. Just confirming the word. It would mean "there are lengths".

Sonia
Perhaps. That's how it was spelled at Gutenberg. I just copied and pasted. "There are lengths" doesn't make much sense to me, but here is the larger context, if it helps.
'Don't you think it was a very pretty sight?' I said at last. 'Yes,' she answered doubtfully; and then she added with genuine feeling: 'Mais il y a des longuers! Oh, mother, the hours we have spent hanging about draughty corridors, half dressed and shivering with cold; and the crowding and crushing, and unlovely faces, all looking so miserable and showing the discomfort and fatigue they were enduring so plainly! I call it positive suffering, and I never want to see another Drawing Room. My soul desires nothing now but decent clothing and hot tea.'
Devorah Allen

Journal of Francis Asbury Traveling preacher, America
The Crook in the Lot Faith in the midst of trials
20th C. Negro Lit. Essays on African American issues
Faces in the Fire Essays on Faith

Kitty
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Post by Kitty » February 19th, 2018, 1:03 pm

mightyfelix wrote:
February 19th, 2018, 12:58 pm
Perhaps. That's how it was spelled at Gutenberg. I just copied and pasted. "There are lengths" doesn't make much sense to me, but here is the larger context, if it helps.
'Don't you think it was a very pretty sight?' I said at last. 'Yes,' she answered doubtfully; and then she added with genuine feeling: 'Mais il y a des longuers! Oh, mother, the hours we have spent hanging about draughty corridors, half dressed and shivering with cold; and the crowding and crushing, and unlovely faces, all looking so miserable and showing the discomfort and fatigue they were enduring so plainly! I call it positive suffering, and I never want to see another Drawing Room. My soul desires nothing now but decent clothing and hot tea.'
ah yes, it's definitely "longueurs". The other word doesn't exist in French, probably a typo or the author didn't know better ;) In this context the girl is complaining that the hours were dragging on and on, so definitely you would say that in French, "there were lengths" in the time we spent, meaning it was boring or uncomfortable and was going on too long that way

Stay tuned

Sonia

Kitty
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Post by Kitty » February 19th, 2018, 1:14 pm

all right here it is: https://librivox.org/uploads/xx-nonproject/longueurs.mp3
I first spoke very slowly so you get all the syllables, and then faster the way people normally speak, so it will sound natural.

Notice the "liaison": that's important to sound really French. The 's' of "mais" is carried over onto the initial vowel of the next word "il" (/maizil/)

If you wish I can check your result :)

Sonia

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