Standard PL

[linny]

Most of the projects I PL for are Standard PL. I had a situation where a reader asked for a pass on correcting the notes. I have no problem with a BC granting a pass. That's not what brought me to this forum. What was odd to me was the reply back to the reader. It indicated that some readers were picky so some PL notes are included for those readers. This made me question if what I was doing was correct. I generally follow the text and note any missing text and word changes which impact intent. I do not include pronunciation issues.

I went back to the standard PL listing:

Standard Proof-listening
-- Do the intro and disclaimer match the instructions in the first post of the project thread?
-- Are there any long silences or pauses that ought to be edited out? If so, note the time.
-- Are there any repeats, or serious stumbles that ought to be edited out? If so, note the words and the time.
-- Is there excessive background noise, a constant hiss or buzz that detracts from the reading?
-- Did you need to turn your volume up unusually high to listen to the recording? (Or did you find the recording too loud?)
-- Are the correct closing words used at the end of the recording, as per the first post of the project thread?
-- Are there about 5 seconds of silence at the end of the file?

Based on this listing I shouldn't be following the text to note either word changes which impact intent or missing text. Is this correct? I honestly don't understand how it can be the intent of standard PL. If it is correct, then an entire page of text missing or a word change making the reading confusing wouldn't be subject to correction. I'm really confused.

[TriciaG]

Yes, that is correct. Standard PL doesn't require following along with the text. I think if most PLs had to read along, there would be a lot fewer PLs. I know I wouldn't PL 80% of the projects I do if I had to follow along with the text.

However, while listening to a standard PL project, if there seems to be a jump in the thoughts (if there seems to be a missing portion), then please do check it out and point it out. Word/meaning changes are more iffy. For projects I solo, I change to a special PL which includes "possible word changes that make you go, 'huh?'" but don't require the listener to follow along with the text.

[linny]

Tricia,
OK, good to know. Moving forward I'll look for special PL projects.

Thank you for the reply.

[knotyouraveragejo]

Taking off my admin hat for the moment to state a personal opinion. I don't think many people indicate special rather than standard PL, even if they are actually happy to have a more detailed review. You can always ask the BC or soloist what they prefer. Personally I want to know if I have missed an edit, and I also follow the text when PLing. I will generally note things that either dramatically change the meaning or really don't make any sense even for standard PL, though I'm aware there are others who strongly object to this. I also am fine with this type of PLing in the group projects that I BC as long as it is within reason. It is always the reader's prerogative whether to edit or not, and that should be made clear when posting notes. What isn't good is a long list of minor edits which could turn off the reader or potentially scare off new readers entirely.

[bluechien]

I take a detailed review pointing out errors and flaws as a strong incentive to work on a project.

[annise]

Well personally I would prefer to listen to a good reading than a correct one if I had to choose. And sooner listen to a reading slip than a poorly edited fix.

Anne

[NemoR]

This is a great topic. In my short tenure here so far, I have only DPL’d about a dozen projects. I always listen along with the text. If there is a word substitution or addition/deletion that does not change meaning, I do NOT point it out. If something changes the meaning of what the author obviously intended, or as in poetry it changes the metre of the poem, then I do point it out to the reader.

For myself, I do not see how not paying attention to the text is helpful. After-all, listening to a 3 minute poem or a 20 minute essay, takes the same amount of time whether I follow along with the text or not.

My personal belief, is that it is easy to think we do this in somewhat of a vacume, while there are always the listeners out there who download these as listen to them .... without the luxury of having the text. I try to always ask myself, what is it like to be in their shoes? ... if something would take away from their enjoyment of hearing a piece because the meaning is changed or the metre of a poem sounds off, then I try to point that out to the reader.

Ultimately, I think it’s up to the BC to tell me if they disagree with my PL style and I am more than happy to follow what they want. So far, in the maybe 200 individual sections that I have PL’d so far, I have only once had a reader object to my PL, thinking it was “too stringent for a standard PL”. This was from a long established reader. None of the newer readers have objected to a more detailed PL and seem to like the feedback and willingly make the edits.

I agree with Anne 100%, that I would prefer to listen to a good reading than a correct one, however with that as a standard, I’d be making comments on a lot of poetry readings that were technically correct under “Standard PL” rules, but were read poorly!

Nemo

[TriciaG]

For myself, I do not see how not paying attention to the text is helpful. After-all, listening to a 3 minute poem or a 20 minute essay, takes the same amount of time whether I follow along with the text or not.

If I did this, dinner wouldn't get made or other chores done. ... or the PL wouldn't get done. I sit around at my computer enough as it is! I usually do other things while listening - as long as I'm not trying to read something else - anything with numbers or letters - my mind can focus on both.

This was from a long established reader. None of the newer readers have objected to a more detailed PL and seem to like the feedback and willingly make the edits.

Honestly, I think this is because newer readers (1) don't understand what is a standard PL and thus think it's the norm to have these corrections pointed out, and/or (2) defer to the DPL thinking they're the more veteran and wiser party, while they're the inexperienced newbie. (Come to think of it, I guess those two are pretty much the same thing. LOL!)

There is a limit, of course. And sometimes I shudder at the number of mispronunciations (for example) in some readers' recordings. But standard is standard. I may ask them if they want a more detailed PL, but wouldn't offer it unsolicited.

[mightyfelix]

This is a great discussion, and really helpful for those of us (me) who are new at PL'ing. I've been wondering, though... Under what circumstances would one request a word-perfect PL? Are there any sort of guidelines as to what should be word-perfect and what doesn't need it? Or is it all personal preference of the BC?

[Elizabby]

I believe it is up to the BC/Soloist to decide. I know that many of the Bible reading and Shakespeare projects are WP, and some of the Jane Austen ones have been in the past. But I've also worked on others that were not, and sometimes a soloist decides to do a WP reading just because they want to!

As far as I know, there aren't any rules (or even any guidelines) about this.

[annise]

I agree with Anne 100%, that I would prefer to listen to a good reading than a correct one, however with that as a standard, I’d be making comments on a lot of poetry readings that were technically correct under “Standard PL” rules, but were read poorly!

Nemo

You have left the most important bit out - it should read "but IN MY OPINION were read poorly!" or maybe "but were NOT read AS I PREFER !
Poetry is nearly always asked to be word perfect , though I'd never flag "a" instead of "the" for example

Anne

[Availle]

Beth is right, there are no fixed guidelines as to what should be PLed word perfectly.

In general, it's the BC's decision as to what PLing she wants to employ for her project; it may be more difficult to find readers and/or a DPL who is willing to go all the way to word perfect. But it depends on the project. Some plays or poetry may just turn out this way because a changed word may make a difference.

Personally, I have done a number of science solos where I wanted word perfect PLing, and I always found somebody to help out. In general, if the text is not too sciencey and has no equations and formulae for example, I'm fine with standard. Who knows how many mistakes were made by the printer

[linny]

Poetry is nearly always asked to be word perfect , though I'd never flag "a" instead of "the" for example

I have DPLed a bunch of poetry projects in the last year or so and I don't remember ANY of them being WP.

BTW: I didn't mean to open up a can of worms with this topic but I do appreciate all of the feedback and clarification.

[tovarisch]

Here is my question on the topic: if the project says 'Standard PL' (and has no DPL) and I listen along with the text and post PL notes if I notice a deviation from the text, would anybody be offended?

I think I posted my opinion in another thread somewhere, and I suppose I can change it. Methinks that it's up to the BC to overlook/ignore noted (reported) differences/deviations ('a' vs 'the') and if SPL is requested, it's a license to the PLer to feel free to ignore such differences and not report them. It's by no means an order or specification of what ought to be ignored.

[annise]

The standard PL says about text deviation , "unless it changes the meaning" so if it ,akes you say "Huh ?? " it's fine to mention it.
If it doesn't change the meaning and you feel strongly about it , PM the BC and let them decide - as you said above , it is the BC's decision

Anne