Covermakers Chat Thread

Non-reading activities need your help too!
annise
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Post by annise » July 21st, 2019, 4:39 pm

annise wrote:
July 21st, 2019, 6:58 am
I think the aim of the image sites is to stop people offering the actual high res images for sale on their sites. One way we could help them when using an image could be to deface it in some way - by having your titles etc overlap the image for example can look quite good :D

Anne
Using them in "collages" is also a way of "defacing" them (I couldn't think of a better word so I used deface ) so I'm not sure what we are arguing about :D
If you consider a book shop and a pile of books lying on a counter, I like our covers to be like that. If there was a pile of Jane Austen on it, there would be some in real period costume, some in modern costume, some in the latest TV images, etc. . They are mostly all valid I think. Although I can hear my mother's voice telling me the TV ones are wrong , they are not wearing enough petticoats. :D
Yes we all have individual tastes , just as we would all differ about favourite readers. But how boring would the world be if everything was made to suit everybody.
Personal philosophy follows
In the end we need to make one that we can live with , and try to make the next one better .

Anne

moniaqua
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Post by moniaqua » July 21st, 2019, 10:12 pm

Availle wrote:
July 21st, 2019, 4:05 pm
I'd love to see more "done from scratch" covers like these.
Give me time ;) :P
I'd be able to take pictures with a camera and I'd be able to paint. But it is very time consuming to make a cover from the scratch, as you know, I am pretty much sure :)

Also, if I read for LibriVox like reading a book for friends, for me it seems just consistent to use a picture from the book I read if ever possible.

Michele, I see that you love the pixabay images but I don't see a need to defend them against me, if you post intended to :) It's a matter of my taste that I prefer pictures from the books or from the time. And I don't think Availle intended to be rude; I am sure you just missed the smiley. She uses pictures from a similar site, you know ;)

Availle
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Post by Availle » July 22nd, 2019, 1:31 am

moniaqua wrote:
July 21st, 2019, 10:12 pm
She uses pictures from a similar site, you know ;)
And since unsplash has changed their licence as well, she will not do that anymore from now on.
Whatever is best for LibriVox, really. :D
Cheers,
Ava.

--
AvailleAudio.com

schrm
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Post by schrm » July 22nd, 2019, 2:02 am

please michele, don't take part on an emotional way and let's concentrate on some facts.
i'm sure, availle didn't want to insult you!

and, please, to all participants: let's not get tangled in some words and personal interpretations, please...
i quoted the simplified german license version.

- this is not a pd license. and we change that license when using pictures from there.
- some laws and considerations here on librivox (like quotation or citation, or alteration of works) may be national and not internationally void; or are not clear enough
**within eu we discussed a law, which forbids search engines like google to quote the titles of newspaper articles. they considered to install a wordcount-dependant version.
**also, a new copyright because of translation is not legit for the book itself - we even have that in one of the posts in our book suggestions threads, and we respect that with books
- i think, librivox is driven by volunteers and we all try to avoid legal problems

and, just to mention it, there was already the exactly same problem: project gutenberg, who got sued because of 18 books (just 18 books!) which gutenberg published in their translated version (in their translated version), which are pd in the usa (with servers standing there, and books published there, and..).
and who decided to close the portal for all germans, because never say never, someone wants to get their personal profit wherever possible.

that said, i know about librivox rules and i'm happy, that the servers are in the usa...
but please, don't forget, that we strive to realize book projects with people all over the world.
it is very clear that we shouldn't recommend to use pixabay to all covermakers and we should state it like it is: it is your decision and not the best thing to do to recommend.
as a non-german, as an austrian, i dont use them for sure.

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Post by msfry » July 22nd, 2019, 8:05 am

moniaqua wrote:
July 21st, 2019, 10:12 pm
Michele, I see that you love the pixabay images but I don't see a need to defend them against me, if you post intended to :) It's a matter of my taste that I prefer pictures from the books or from the time. And I don't think Availle intended to be rude; I am sure you just missed the smiley. She uses pictures from a similar site, you know ;)
First, I am not "defending" any choice of images, just trying not to let Librivox be steered unnecessarily away from any legitimate opportunities we have at our fingertips to illustrate. If they are truly not legitimate, that's a different story. And that is what we were supposed to be discussing, which was presumably settled by Anne several posts ago.

Second, of course we must follow the rules for the country we live in, both for reading and illustrating. That, for me, is the USA.

Third, where creativity is concerned, if I'm ever inspired to assemble a cover from found objects or personal photos, I surely will. But as Anne pointed out, we each have different styles and preferences. I personally love to play with Photoshop, using vivid images and outstanding fonts to tell a huge story on a very small 2.5" x 2.5" square. That's a very interesting challenge for me. Also, I love working with collages and layers, when I think they enhance the cover. Others may like flat, muted images, plain backgrounds, and unobtrusive fonts. It's all good, especially since it's all donated free. I am not competing with anyone here, except to scramble over to the claims board to see if the cover I've had my eye on is still available.

Fourth, Moniaqua, I often use images straight from the books, if they inspire me, so you don't need to defend your choices to use those. Not at all. Check out this one of mine from the book, submitted just 3 days ago:
https://librivox.org/a-book-of-american-explorers-by-thomas-wentworth-higginson/

Lastly, inspiration is the key, a precious gift we all seem to have in great abundance at the moment and I'm glad to be here in this group. I'm constantly amazed at how quickly the covers are claimed, and how decorative our covers make our catalog look. They are a great compliment to the readers, BC's and MC's who put the books together. Viewing the IA page of all our 12,000+ covers over the years, with all that variety, I nearly burst with pride. I don't plan to throw cold water on anyone's creativity, no indeed, and I don't want cold water thrown on mine.
Michele Fry, CC
My Projects
"Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts." ~Winston Churchill

moniaqua
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Post by moniaqua » July 22nd, 2019, 10:27 pm

schrm wrote:
July 22nd, 2019, 2:02 am
project gutenberg, who got sued because of 18 books (just 18 books!)
Were it really that many? :shock: I had something like under 10 in mind, but you might remember the number better than I do :)
msfry wrote:
July 22nd, 2019, 8:05 am
First, I am not "defending" any choice of images,
Well, doesn't look like to me, I feel a lot of emotions going on here :)
msfry wrote:
July 22nd, 2019, 8:05 am
so you don't need to defend your choices to use those.
:hmm: What made you think I did defend my choice? I just intended to say, you do your choice, I do mine, any way is fine.
msfry wrote:
July 22nd, 2019, 8:05 am
and I don't want cold water thrown on mine.
I really don't think that anyone wanted to throw cold water on your creativity even if Availles comment might perhaps be misunderstood but I am pretty sure she didn't mean it in the way you understood it. But I think we should take the risk of the changed license serious. You know what I see when I attempt to read a book on gutenberg.org?
Your IP Address in Germany is Blocked from www.gutenberg.org
and some more text about the why. And now, this was a publisher in German, where, for my feeling, courts don't run as much amok as the ones in US where even hot coffee can be a problem. Copy right is a big old mess and working over the whole world doesn't make it any easier. That's all people are saying here, no one says anything against you personally or your work as such.
I think it is phantastic what was done with covers on LibriVox; I agree to your opinion about them and I think we should make sure that we keep on going to ensure that everybody can see them :)

annise
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Post by annise » July 22nd, 2019, 11:25 pm

The German copyright situation and the internet is very upsetting, especialy if it spreads. The whole field is a minefield, every rule has a possible exception and there is no way anyone at LV could know them all so lets do our best to stick within the ones we know cos we all have better things to do with our time.
And I don't think any USA resident realizes how really really annoying it is to be blocked from seeing things :twisted: :evil: :twisted: :evil:

Anne

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Post by msfry » July 23rd, 2019, 6:42 am

annise wrote:
July 22nd, 2019, 11:25 pm
And I don't think any USA resident realizes how really really annoying it is to be blocked from seeing things :twisted: :evil: :twisted: :evil:
Anne
As in, German citizens are blocked, by their government, from viewing Gutenberg pages? I've heard about blocking porn and hate websites in some countries, but Gutenberg?????? That is frustrating to hear.
Michele Fry, CC
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"Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts." ~Winston Churchill

annise
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Post by annise » July 23rd, 2019, 6:58 am

It's not the Government , it's the courts. Some of the German texts at PG are not PD in Germany and the owners of the copyrigt took PG to court, and my understanding is that it was PG who blocked access to save PG being in contempt of court. But as I keep saying , I am not a international copyright lawyer.

Anne

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Post by msfry » July 23rd, 2019, 7:23 am

Ah, that makes better sense. Intellectual property does need to be protected to some extent, and there is no universal opinion on what is the most fair. I bet many authors would prefer their creations to be copyrighted forever, unless they specifically released them, so their heirs could reap the benefits of famous old Great Great Great Grandpa's novels. I bet the Zolas, Hemmingways, Twains, and so on, would be very happy about that.

Now I wonder who decided nothing could be copyrighted forever? Maybe I'll look for a book or a court decision where the reasoning is spelled out.
Michele Fry, CC
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"Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts." ~Winston Churchill

moniaqua
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Post by moniaqua » July 23rd, 2019, 12:04 pm

msfry wrote:
July 23rd, 2019, 6:42 am
As in, German citizens are blocked, by their government, from viewing Gutenberg pages?
As Anne already said, it is judiciary, not legislative, God forbid! The works the publisher took the law suit for are from Thomas Mann and some others, all died around 1955, so in about äh, six years or so the works are PD anyway, and all well known and good selling. The works are PD in US, but not in Europe which makes things kinda complicated. I think it is kind of a last rearing up of the publishers, they just want to get the last cents in :/

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Post by msfry » July 27th, 2019, 2:33 pm

My husband just brought my globe down from the high shelf and put it in my office. Now I can see the different time zones everyone is in. Anne, you are about 14 hours different than me. So by my calculation, when it's 4 p.m. here in Louisiana, it is 7 a.m. the next day where you are in Melbourne. It's 11 p.m. in Germany (7 hours ahead), 8 a.m. in Japan (15 hours ahead). Wow! We truly seem more of a global community . . . . . now that I have a globe! :D
Michele Fry, CC
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"Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts." ~Winston Churchill

schrm
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Post by schrm » July 28th, 2019, 1:36 am

msfry wrote:
July 27th, 2019, 2:33 pm
My husband just brought my globe down from the high shelf and put it in my office. Now I can see the different time zones everyone is in. Anne, you are about 14 hours different than me. So by my calculation, when it's 4 p.m. here in Louisiana, it is 7 a.m. the next day where you are in Melbourne. It's 11 p.m. in Germany (7 hours ahead), 8 a.m. in Japan (15 hours ahead). Wow! We truly seem more of a global community . . . . . now that I have a globe! :D
cool!
i was on a sort of "world-clock" webpage some times ago and watched the (dozens of) clocks running - had the same effect!
:D

annise
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Post by annise » July 31st, 2019, 9:38 pm

Baart and his friend had a long look at the apparently random projects that would not accept claims and have proposed that the common factor is a ampersand & in the title and certainly it was the case with
A Martian Odyssey & A Valley of Dreams
Three Stories & Ten Poems
Multilingual Short Works Collection 021 - Poetry & Prose
which are the last ones I can remember
So hopefully they will able to come up with a fix :thumbs: :thumbs:

Anne

schrm
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Post by schrm » August 1st, 2019, 1:14 am

ooh...
that was unexpected, somehow...
but :clap:

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