Covermakers Chat Thread

schrm · Post by **schrm** » February 22nd, 2019, 1:39 pm

uh so cute

moniaqua · Post by **moniaqua** » February 23rd, 2019, 3:57 am

Hi Foon,

if you like it, use it. If not, don't worry at all, it was a good excercise

https://librivox.org/uploads/xx-nonproject/squirrel_bob_5_artistic.jpg

I do have a .png, too but that file is really huge and I think the .jpg should do it. But if you prefer the png, I could send it to you.

Post by **Availle** » February 23rd, 2019, 4:23 am

Cute! Both the original photos and what you made of it Monika!

I had no idea you were that friendly with your Bob!

Just a small pet peeve of mine:
Please avoid uploading stuff to the nonproject folder that is not meant to stay there forever. Every time I go in there, I see files where I have no idea if they are important or not for LV. The nonproject folder is for images and other files that we use on the LV wiki, for example.

Both the "covers" folder and the "tests" folder are cleaned out regularly, these are the second best places to upload things like this.
The very best places, of course, are image sites

moniaqua · Post by **moniaqua** » February 23rd, 2019, 4:38 am

Availle wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2019, 4:23 am The nonproject folder is for images and other files that we use on the LV wiki, for example.

sorry!

Post by **annise** » February 23rd, 2019, 5:05 am

Can I just say something here - cover making is the same as all other volunteer things here , I don't go around telling readers how to read, I can't pick readers for my group projects, I might not like the way you read , or the voices you use, or the fact the pauses are in the wrong place, as long as it passes PLing I have to use it, and I have to put up with the DPL who volunteers first.
And as an MC I pick up projects that I can see no point in adding to our catalogue.
But my opinions are not important in the overall LV world.

So I don't expect readers to tell cover makers what the covers should be like. So I don't mind the squirrels being offered - they were special, but I don't expect anyone who claims the cover to use them unless they want to. Tastes vary in reading style but the variation in artistic taste is greater - reading a book you don't and/or don't think should be in the catalogue shows in your reading, making a cover trying to cater to someone else's taste damages the finished result even more.

Anne (stepping off my soapbox )

moniaqua · Post by **moniaqua** » February 23rd, 2019, 6:09 am

annise wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2019, 5:05 am So I don't expect readers to tell cover makers what the covers should be like. So I don't mind the squirrels being offered - they were special, but I don't expect anyone who claims the cover to use them unless they want to.

I agree with covers from the open list.
As a BC or as soloist, I have the possibility to preclaim covers and I suppose that Foon does so as soon she knows if anyone will do a cover according to her requests.

annise wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2019, 5:05 am reading a book you don't and/or don't think should be in the catalogue shows in your reading, making a cover trying to cater to someone else's taste damages the finished result even more.

I do not see this point here. Foon asked for help because she wants to have a certain thing in a cover but can not do it herself. If she likes the pic I did, she might use it. Of not, no harm done at all. I woudn't have done the pic if I hadn't liked it and I really don't think the outcome is damaged. Sometimes two brains might give an even better result than one single brain alone because there might be some changes in the point of view or some ideas that wouldn't have occurred without working together.
I definitely like the LibriVox approach of being open to different styles, no matter if reading or cover making or ... But I do not see at all the sometimes in some posts gleaming approach of everyone does all tasks in his/her project. LibriVox has grown over the years and I don't see that somebody shouldn't ask beforehand for experts if they like to have a certain feature they can not do by themselves. Why should I hinder someone to do a project just because he/she can not do a certain part of it?
One of the reasons I am at LibriVox is that I didn't like some readings and thought I wanna do it my way. And you can be sure that I talked to my MC of my solo that I want to do my cover because I want to do it catering my taste. I would ask someone else if I couldn't do picture editing.
Of course, if a project goes onto the claim list, I do not see any sense in saying "But I would have wanted it like this or like that". In that case I definitely have to take the outcome there, if I like it or not.

Foon · Post by **Foon** » February 23rd, 2019, 7:06 am

@Monika: that looks great!!

@Anne: I completely see where you're coming from. It would have been completely fine with me if no one had an interest in taking it up, and whoever claimed it just did their own thing with it--not just "fine with it", but I'd be grateful for the lovely cover I'm sure I'd end up getting for my recordings. As I said, if for example the images don't work out because of quality or whatever else, that's fine. It would mean something to me to have my squirrel friend (who I really miss!) on the cover, but not a single listener to the book would know or care. So I'm fine with whatever the outcome is, I definitely don't mean to tell covermakers how to do their jobs. It's just an idea I had.

Now, I must admit I'm not 100% sure on the etiquette of cover claiming, but I understand a soloist or BC can preclaim for their own projects, yes? Can you also preclaim on behalf of someone else? By which I mean, could I say "I would like to preclaim the cover for this project for [person] to make"?

In any case, I would be exceedingly happy with any cover that features my own dear Bobbie in whatever way that a cover maker sees fit. If the above proposal for preclaiming works (please tell me if it doesn't), let's say, I will preclaim the cover for the (first) person who says they'd like to do that. And if no one expresses an interest in making the full cover, it'll just go to the claims list and anyone can do what they think is best for the cover.
FYI, I plan to finish recording in the next 2-3 days, the book should be catalogued pretty soon (pending PL, of course).

Post by **TriciaG** » February 23rd, 2019, 7:19 am

Can you also preclaim on behalf of someone else? By which I mean, could I say "I would like to preclaim the cover for this project for [person] to make"?

No. That would open too many cans of worms - accusations of favoritism, or a covermaker using this loophole to preclaim more projects than it's "legal" for them to have, etc.

schrm · Post by **schrm** » February 23rd, 2019, 7:30 am

But it ist ok to (pre)claim it yourself and use the cover you got from someone - at least, that happened before?
(Not only me, or i wouldn't have done it)

Post by **TriciaG** » February 23rd, 2019, 7:48 am

What you do or communicate in private cannot be approved or disapproved of, because we don't know about it.

It feels un-LibriVoxy for a cover maker to contact BC/soloists and ask them to preclaim a cover so that they can make the cover for them. If this were done in the public forum, I think we'd put a stop to it.

I don't know how I feel about a soloist/BC preclaiming a cover, then contacting a cover maker and asking them to do their cover for them. That feels un-LibriVoxy to me, too, but less so than the above scenario.

So, for me personally, what I don't know about cannot be given a thumbs up or a thumbs down.

I'm OK with a BC/soloist requesting a picture be used or giving suggestions, but with the clear understanding that the cover maker is free to do what they think is best with the cover.

Foon · Post by **Foon** » February 23rd, 2019, 7:59 am

TriciaG wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2019, 7:19 am
Can you also preclaim on behalf of someone else? By which I mean, could I say "I would like to preclaim the cover for this project for [person] to make"?
No. That would open too many cans of worms - accusations of favoritism, or a covermaker using this loophole to preclaim more projects than it's "legal" for them to have, etc.

I see where you're coming from, although I did try to avoid e.g. favouritism as much as possible (hence my "whoever responds first can take it" statement) and keep everything in the LV spirit.

So, with your clear "no" on preclaiming for someone else to make it, and me having no desire to get image editing software, learning skills, figuring out all the technical bits that are needed for covers, etc (as well as being convinced that it wouldn't be nearly as nice if I make it instead of someone with experience) ... that leaves not much of a choice except for having it going to the claims list as normal, and I'll see what turns up!
My squirrel pictures are up there, so if the covermaker wants to use them, they can; and if not, I'll look forward to whatever else will be on the cover.

schrm · Post by **schrm** » February 23rd, 2019, 8:06 am

TriciaG wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2019, 7:48 am
I don't know how I feel about a soloist/BC preclaiming a cover, then contacting a cover maker and asking them to do their cover for them. That feels un-LibriVoxy to me, too, but less so than the above scenario.

i see... that was the scenario, exactly.
i understood it being a bc and a cover maker, myself: that i want the cover to be like i want it..
and when someone is lacking the skills, i thought it to be ok, to ask someone to work on it together.

but these librivox-customs, workflow and best practice, the spirit i know and love... are producing some doubts there...
i think, i won't agree to a similar request by a bc/soloist in future, thank you!

Post by **TriciaG** » February 23rd, 2019, 8:12 am

Keep in mind that that is just my own feeling about it, not official LV policy. Other admins might feel that it's OK.

Like I said, what happens in private, whether acceptable or unacceptable or undecided, cannot be policed.

I'd rather not have to codify every possible scenario into a "OK / Not OK" list. People should be able to use their best judgment.

msfry · Post by **msfry** » February 23rd, 2019, 8:13 am

One more option, Foon, is to watch the claims board like a hawk once your project catalogues, and whoever claims it, PM them with an announcement, not a demand or request, that you've posted some pictures of YOUR squirrel for their consideration, and give the link. Because, because, because . . . . . you can't be sure that ALL of our cover makers are following this conversation. But I think you CAN BE SURE all of our cover makers aim to please their BC or soloist.

BTW, I love this discussion. It proves, to me at least, that covers are very important to the people involved in the project!

schrm · Post by **schrm** » February 23rd, 2019, 8:23 am

thank you tricia and michelle for your inputs

*flying away to make the cover for tricias pansy*
"https://i.imgur.com/rhAjIdh.png"