[COMPLETE] The Cambridge Modern History. Volume 03, The Wars of Religion-Leni

[LCaulkins]

Section 24 is available for review.

https://librivox.org/uploads/leni/cambridgemodernhistory3_24_various_128kb.mp3

Length: 34m 21s

Another very nicely recorded section!

Section 24 is PL OK

[Kazbek]

Section 24 is PL OK

Thanks for PLing!

Michael

[Kazbek]

PL notes for section 35:
2:07 tenets I hear "tenents"
8:40 amity I hear "amnity"
8:42 Puritanism I hear "Puritism"
26:34 spread I hear "speed"
28:24 incongruity I hear "inconnuity"

Here is edited version of section 35:

I am sorry but I couldn't find at 28.24 'inconnuity' or 'incongruity' ! -

I went ahead and did spot PL. Section 35 is PL OK. "Incongruity/inconnuity" is at 28:47, but I think it's ok.

Piotrek, I see that you volunteered to PL 34 and 35, but PLed only 35. Are you still planning to do 34, or should we return it to the PL queue?

Michael

[Piotrek81]

Piotrek, I see that you volunteered to PL 34 and 35, but PLed only 35. Are you still planning to do 34, or should we return it to the PL queue?

Michael

Apologies. Here are the PL notes for section 34:

around 7:00 animosity I hear "aminosity"
around 14:15 taciturn I hear "tunicitory"
around 14:30 sobriquet I hear "sorbiquet"
around 17:17 moments I hear "movements"
around 17:50 harassing I hear "housing"
around 27:55 amicably I hear "Amnically"
around 36:20 forfeited I hear "fortified"
around 38:50 prognostications I hear "prognostinations"
around 40:38 chimerical I hear "chimerial" also the first sound should be K
around 40:45 epistolary I hear "exploratory"

[Jonatoner]

Hi Michael - Good idea about starting the chapter. I will also claim section 56. Thanks

[Kazbek]

Here is section 34:

Here are the PL notes for section 34:

Thanks for PLing, Piotrek!

Michael

[Kazbek]

Hi Michael - Good idea about starting the chapter. I will also claim section 56. Thanks

Great, thanks!

Michael

[UPRG11W]

PL note:

Feedback on the 47:19 recording for Section 40. All is beautifully read, except for two tiny spots:

0:25 Chapter 12, while it is read as "Chapter 7"
26:09 - 26:11 repeated "Citizens in general, wrote" in the sentence "Citizens in general, wrote Guicciardini, care little about ..."

Regards,
Jessie

Section 40 ready for PL. Length 47:19

https://librivox.org/uploads/leni/cambridgemodernhistory3_40_various_128kb.mp3

Tom

[TheVagabond]

Section 40 ready for PL. Length 47:19

I also re-recorded the first sentence because of the unmistakable sound of our food mixer which I hadn't noticed earlier. I didn't think Cosimo would approve.

https://librivox.org/uploads/leni/cambridgemodernhistory3_40_various_128kb.mp3

Tom

[Kazbek]

Great to have you back with us, Jessie! I've uploaded sections 47 and 48 to welcome you.

Michael

[TadDavis]

Section 25 is available for review.

https://librivox.org/uploads/leni/cambridgemodernhistory3_25_various_128kb.mp3

Length: 37m 17s

A couple of comments on pronunciation.

The River Y = Ij in modern Dutch and according to various resources, including Forvo, sounds something like the “ay” in “hay”.

Also according to Forvo, the “Coeli” in “Medina Coeli” sounds something like “koh aylee”. That’s how I said it, although other resources give a different pronunciation. There’s actually an old book, “The Pronunciation of 10,000 Proper Names” by Mary Stuart Mackey and Maryette Goodwin Mackey, that I was able to dig up a copy of in PDF format. It has a ton of fascinating stuff of unknown provenance, and it gives it, or a name close to it, as “thay lee” — which I’m almost certain is wrong. But really I have no basis for having an opinion one way or the other.

There’s a French sentence in the text: “Quel coup de massue cela nous ait esté” — I took a stab at it but it should be checked by someone who had more than a single year of high school French. One of the things that always baffles me about French is when the consonant at the end of a word that is normally silent is pronounced because of what follows.

Another surprise to me, having almost no exposure to Dutch, is that according to many resources (again including Forvo), the N at the end of many place names (Bergen, Nymegen, Zutphen) is often silent, or at least silent for most speakers of Dutch. I tried that and just couldn’t do it. Using the information that this is a majority but not a universal practice as an excuse, I kept the N. (Yes, I admit it: like most people in the US, I say the name Van Gogh as if it were spelled VAN GO.)

[Owlivia]

(Yes, I admit it: like most people in the US, I say the name Van Gogh as if it were spelled VAN GO.)

Natives pronounce Gogh (street) in San Francisco as “Goff.” Like a sneeze and a cough.

American pronunciation patterns: one of the Great Mysteries.

[Kazbek]

Section 25 is available for review.

Thank you, Tad!

Also according to Forvo, the “Coeli” in “Medina Coeli” sounds something like “koh aylee”. That’s how I said it, although other resources give a different pronunciation. There’s actually an old book, “The Pronunciation of 10,000 Proper Names” by Mary Stuart Mackey and Maryette Goodwin Mackey, that I was able to dig up a copy of in PDF format. It has a ton of fascinating stuff of unknown provenance, and it gives it, or a name close to it, as “thay lee” — which I’m almost certain is wrong. But really I have no basis for having an opinion one way or the other.

This name really jumped out at me just now, because it means "city of heaven", with the first word being in Arabic and the second in Latin, a linguistic construct for which I could imagine no plausible historical scenario. Apparently, it comes from the Spanish town of Medinaceli, which is a corruption of the Arabic "madīnat salīm", named after the Berber tribe of Banu Salim. The standard Spanish pronunciation is indeed "thay lee". Then at some point, the second part was reinvented as the Latin word "coeli". I believe the people who bore the name in this form were mostly Italians, in which case the Italianate "cheli" would be a reasonable choice, although I can imagine that some descendants might pronounce it with a hard k, to show the world that they know their classical Latin pronunciation.

There’s a French sentence in the text: “Quel coup de massue cela nous ait esté” — I took a stab at it but it should be checked by someone who had more than a single year of high school French. One of the things that always baffles me about French is when the consonant at the end of a word that is normally silent is pronounced because of what follows.

I'm sure it's ok, but I can double-check if you want, if you give me the timestamp. The thing that most surprised me about the French liason, and which I realized only while PLing for one of our most accomplished French readers, is that native speakers syllabify the connecting consonant together with first syllable of the next word, and might even put a marked pause before it when reading a text (I've never heard that in natural speech). So, the end of this phrase might be read as nou zè té té (esté being an old spelling of été).

Michael

[TadDavis]

Section 25 is available for review.

Thank you, Tad!

Also according to Forvo, the “Coeli” in “Medina Coeli” sounds something like “koh aylee”. That’s how I said it, although other resources give a different pronunciation. There’s actually an old book, “The Pronunciation of 10,000 Proper Names” by Mary Stuart Mackey and Maryette Goodwin Mackey, that I was able to dig up a copy of in PDF format. It has a ton of fascinating stuff of unknown provenance, and it gives it, or a name close to it, as “thay lee” — which I’m almost certain is wrong. But really I have no basis for having an opinion one way or the other.

This name really jumped out at me just now, because it means "city of heaven", with the first word being in Arabic and the second in Latin, a linguistic construct for which I could imagine no plausible historical scenario. Apparently, it comes from the Spanish town of Medinaceli, which is a corruption of the Arabic "madīnat salīm", named after the Berber tribe of Banu Salim. The standard Spanish pronunciation is indeed "thay lee". Then at some point, the second part was reinvented as the Latin word "coeli". I believe the people who bore the name in this form were mostly Italians, in which case the Italianate "cheli" would be a reasonable choice, although I can imagine that some descendants might pronounce it with a hard k, to show the world that they know their classical Latin pronunciation.

There’s a French sentence in the text: “Quel coup de massue cela nous ait esté” — I took a stab at it but it should be checked by someone who had more than a single year of high school French. One of the things that always baffles me about French is when the consonant at the end of a word that is normally silent is pronounced because of what follows.

I'm sure it's ok, but I can double-check if you want, if you give me the timestamp. The thing that most surprised me about the French liason, and which I realized only while PLing for one of our most accomplished French readers, is that native speakers syllabify the connecting consonant together with first syllable of the next word, and might even put a marked pause before it when reading a text (I've never heard that in natural speech). So, the end of this phrase might be read as nou zè té té (esté being an old spelling of été).

Michael

The French sentence is at 7:46.

I’ll plan on fixing the sentences with the Medina Coeli, but I’ll hold off — this was a mare’s nest of pronunciation challenges, and there are likely to be other corrections. I can redo the Dutch place names and leave off the Ns if preferred; though I must say that while saying “TER hose” for Tergoes was easy, saying “ZUUT fuh” for “Zutphen” will be harder. Provincialism is a hard habit to break.

[Kazbek]

The French sentence is at 7:46.

It's a decent effort, though I'm hearing "monsieur" instead of "massue" (bludgeon). If you'd like to fine-tune this one, you could type in this phrase in the modern spelling (Quel coup de massue cela nous ait été) into Google Translate, let it guess the language, and then hit the speaker icon to hear it (clicking it a second time will slow it down). You're also welcome to leave it as is.

I’ll plan on fixing the sentences with the Medina Coeli, but I’ll hold off — this was a mare’s nest of pronunciation challenges, and there are likely to be other corrections.

Emanuela, our Italian expert adviser for this project, has confirmed my pronunciation suggestion and pointed out that my spelling "cheli" could be confusing. I meant "che" to represent the English "che" sound (and not how "che" would be read it Italian).

I can redo the Dutch place names and leave off the Ns if preferred; though I must say that while saying “TER hose” for Tergoes was easy, saying “ZUUT fuh” for “Zutphen” will be harder. Provincialism is a hard habit to break.

There's nothing wrong with using native pronunciations for proper nouns. There's also nothing wrong with using "compromise" pronunciations that would be recognizable both to natives and to the average listener. In either case, I personally wouldn't want you to spend additional time on fine points of pronunciation if that means that our listeners will get to hear fewer contributions from you. If you'd like to change any of those, please list the timestamps for spot PL, but I think you've already gone above and beyond.

Thanks!
Michael