[COMPLETE]Multilingual Short Works Collection 024 - thw

Solo or group recordings that are finished and fully available for listeners
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Kazbek
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Post by Kazbek » June 13th, 2020, 10:40 am

Kitty wrote:
June 13th, 2020, 10:33 am
Kazbek wrote:
June 13th, 2020, 9:42 am
Also, please let me know if you have trouble accessing the Derzhavin source on Google Books outside the US.
no sorry, I don't have any view of this google book :( you didn't find the title on archive maybe ? I would need the text source to check your recording.
Let's figure out via PM the easiest way to share it with you. :) It's a 1886 book and I can download the PDF. It's just the usual Google Books weirdness with non-US access.
Luckily, I found some later editions which had corrected that.
well we need a source that is still in public domain I'm afraid, otherwise we cannot include those modernized editions.
Later meaning still PD. I was referring to the Archive link.

Michael

catharmaiden
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Post by catharmaiden » June 13th, 2020, 10:46 am

Kitty wrote:
June 13th, 2020, 1:31 am
"Un d'Nuôchtegeilchen" by Michel Lentz (1820-1893)
Text source: http://www.eluxemburgensia.lu/BnlViewer/view/index.html?lang=en#panel:pp|issue:2833780|page:299
Link: https://librivox.org/uploads/toddhw/msw024_nuochtegeilchen_lentz_ss_128kb.mp3

Sandra (catharmaiden) will PL for me, unless you want to try it yourself, Michael :mrgreen: Just let me know.
A wonderful little poem, beautifully read. Well done, Sonia. It's PL ok. :9:

Kitty
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Post by Kitty » June 13th, 2020, 11:30 am

I listened to both your poems, Michael, and they are beautifully read and very easy for me to follow along, even though the script was in the old spelling :? is this easy for you to read or do you need practice with this as well ? I guess it's not the way you learnt it in school ;)
Pushkin's take on the Exegi monumentum theme is one of the best known poems in Russian, but most people don't know that it closely echoes an earlier poem by Derzhavin.
:shock: indeed, some lines or words are even basically the same ! Interesting find.

The Pushkin poem is already PL ok.

Found one small textual deviation in Derzhavin's poem. It would change the meaning, and I think especially in poems the precise meaning is important. Unless you tell me it was a typo in the book. I let you decide:

> at 0:32: "но часть меня большая" - you say "моя"

Thanks :)

Sonia

Kazbek
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Post by Kazbek » June 13th, 2020, 11:55 am

Kitty wrote:
June 13th, 2020, 11:30 am
I listened to both your poems, Michael, and they are beautifully read and very easy for me to follow along, even though the script was in the old spelling :? is this easy for you to read or do you need practice with this as well ? I guess it's not the way you learnt it in school ;)
Thanks for the kind words and the close listen, Sonia! Yes, I don't have that much exposure to texts in old spelling. I'd say it definitely takes me an extra effort to read them. I'm impressed that someone who's studying the language would be able to handle them, because I have to rely more on my linguistic intuitions and less on my eyes when reading them, compared with modern spelling. I'm guessing I'll become more proficient with old orthography if I keep it up at LV. :D

Found one small textual deviation in Derzhavin's poem. It would change the meaning, and I think especially in poems the precise meaning is important. Unless you tell me it was a typo in the book. I let you decide:

> at 0:32: "но часть меня большая" - you say "моя"
You're quite right, I read that wrong! I blame the old spelling. ;) Corrected and ready for spot PL. :)

Michael

Kitty
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Post by Kitty » June 13th, 2020, 12:02 pm

Kazbek wrote:
June 13th, 2020, 11:55 am
I don't have that much exposure to texts in old spelling. I'd say it definitely takes me an extra effort to read them.
yes I can imagine, because many words do look quite strange to what we are used to nowadays.
I have to rely more on my linguistic intuitions and less on my eyes when reading them, compared with modern spelling. I'm guessing I'll become more proficient with old orthography if I keep it up at LV. :D
:lol: yes LV is good for such things. I also became much better at reading the old German typography since I started reading those old texts in German.
You're quite right, I read that wrong! I blame the old spelling. ;) Corrected and ready for spot PL. :)
and PL ok now. I can understand that "часть моя" would come easier. I actually don't really see what exactly "часть меня" could mean :hmm: could be genitive or accusative form... How would you translate this line ?

Oh and I added Derzhavin to the metadata now :) also searchable in Cyrillic.

Sonia

Kazbek
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Post by Kazbek » June 13th, 2020, 12:30 pm

Kitty wrote:
June 13th, 2020, 12:02 pm
:lol: yes LV is good for such things. I also became much better at reading the old German typography since I started reading those old texts in German.
Oh, yes, that. I've resolved several times to get more practice with it, but every time I quickly ran out of steam and switched to a modern version.
and PL ok now. I can understand that "часть моя" would come easier. I actually don't really see what exactly "часть меня" could mean :hmm: could be genitive or accusative form... How would you translate this line ?
Yes, that's a genitive, "part of me". The line is actually very interesting. You can glimpse a broad sweep of the history of Russian language reflected in it in miniature.
но часть моя большая, от тлена убежав, по смерти станет жить
This means, roughly, "but a great part of me, having escaped decay, will live on after death". Derzhavin wrote this when Russian literary language was still very much "under construction", and fragmented into Church Slavonic, popular speech, and a kind of bureaucratic koine. Lomonosov proposed a program for creating a unified literary language, with three registers corresponding to these three varieties. Remarkably, his plan was actually put into practice, and Pushkin deserves much of the credit. Pretty much, whichever elements of Church Slavonic he used in his work, are preserved in modern Russian as part of the "elevated" register. In Derzhavin's line, the words "убежав" and "по смерти" don't sound like Russian to me (we would say "избежав" for escape unless there's physical running involved, and "после" instead of "по"). I believe they reflect Church Slavonic usage, though I'm not sure. In contrast, words like тлен and воздвиг are also Church Slavonic, but they have become part of "poetic" Russian. Now, you probably noticed that Pushkin borrows the word "убежит" in his poem, and this is a rare exception where a word Pushkin uses sounds antiquated. And thanks for giving me an excuse to ramble on for a while. :)

Michael

ToddHW
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Post by ToddHW » June 13th, 2020, 12:53 pm

Do you know how inadequate a discussion like this makes a poor old monolingual guy like me feel? I wish I had had something other than English in my youth - my only exposure to other languages comes from singing and while I might pronounce things correctly if prompted a couple times, I never really know what I am saying.

You should be very proud of your ability to understand all these languages. I am in absolute awe of such talent.

Thanks, Todd

Kazbek
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Post by Kazbek » June 13th, 2020, 1:31 pm

Thank you for making us feel proud, Todd, and for setting up this multilingual sandbox where we can indulge in our language interests. I'm sure there are many subjects on which you're much more knowledgeable than I am, and perhaps I'll get a chance to read your words and make a similar comment in another project. :)

Michael

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Post by chulsky » June 13th, 2020, 4:30 pm

Kitty wrote:
June 11th, 2020, 3:08 am
... But why didn't you include the link you read from ? It's always best to read from the source text we are using, or at least making sure there are no modern edits.
...
> at 10:25: (p. 520) after "оглан" there is the word "юноша" in brackets
Fixed, ready for spot-PL: https://librivox.org/uploads/toddhw/msw024_ashikkerib_lermontov_mch_128kb.mp3 [26:50]
Sorry for not including the link. I read from: https://ru.wikisource.org/wiki/%D0%90%D1%88%D0%B8%D0%BA-%D0%9A%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%B1_(%D0%9B%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%BC%D0%BE%D0%BD%D1%82%D0%BE%D0%B2)
Even though it refers to the 1846 publication, it is still 1937 edition, and I know there are MCs who wouldn't be happy with that. I am really sorry, Sonia, you had to strain your eyes through the blurred copy :(
Mark Chulsky / Марк Чульский
Readers invited: Стихи Веневитинова Jean-Christophe

Kazbek
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Post by Kazbek » June 13th, 2020, 4:51 pm

I've updated the MW for spot PL of Mark's recording (that is, status; the rest is unchanged), but I'll let Sonia decide what to do about the source. I don't believe we can use a post-1924 edition, which makes things particularly difficult for Russian sources. Russian classics are all freely available in post-1924 editions on reputable websites like feb-web.ru, so there's little motivation for digitizing and distributing older editions. Luckily, there's ImWerden, which hosts a lot of them, but their PDFs are rather clunky. And OCR systems/search engines aren't exactly optimized for old Russian orthography... :roll:

Michael

Liber
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Post by Liber » June 13th, 2020, 6:25 pm

What an interesting coincidence: few days ago I read Pushkin's poem, which I had never read before, and I checked if it was available on Librivox, and I was not able to find it :-)
I hope you can find a source for your recording!
Liber

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Post by laurenlemay » June 14th, 2020, 12:09 am

hi
my name is Lauren and
I would like to do this poem by Mihai Eminescu:
DEPARTE SUNT DE TINE…


Departe sunt de tine și singur lângă foc,
Petrec în minte viața-mi lipsită de noroc,
Optzeci de ani îmi pare în lume c-am trăit,
Că sunt bătrân ca iarna, că tu vei fi murit.
Aducerile-aminte pe suflet cad în picuri,
Redeșteptând în față-mi trecutele nimicuri;
Cu degetele-i vântul lovește în ferești,
Se toarce-n gându-mi firul duioaselor povești,
Ș-atuncea dinainte-mi prin ceață parcă treci,
Cu ochii mari în lacrimi, cu mâni subțiri și reci;
Cu brațele-amândouă de gâtul meu te-anini
Și parc-ai vrea a-mi spune ceva… apoi suspini…
Eu strâng la piept averea-mi de-amor și frumuseți,
În sărutări unim noi sărmanele vieți…
O! glasul amintirii rămâie pururi mut,
Să uit pe veci norocul ce-o clipă l-am avut,
Să uit, cum dup-o clipă din brațele-mi te-ai smult…
Voi fi bătrân și singur, vei fi murit de mult!


here is a link to his public domain book. I hope it's in the public domain, from what I hear, his grandson is alive in Romania: http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/35323
Wikipedia link to author: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mihai_Eminescu
Wikipedia link to title: https://ro.wikisource.org/wiki/Departe_sunt_de_tine...
Number of section/files: This project will have 1
No introduction or preface
Original publication date: 1884
name/pseudonim: laurenlemay - new volunteer

Kitty
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Post by Kitty » June 14th, 2020, 3:38 am

Kazbek wrote:
June 13th, 2020, 12:30 pm
Oh, yes, that. I've resolved several times to get more practice with it, but every time I quickly ran out of steam and switched to a modern version.
yes that is usually not an option here in LV, we need to read from the PD source ;)
Yes, that's a genitive, "part of me".
true ! That way it makes sense. Thanks !
"но часть моя большая, от тлена убежав, по смерти станет жить"
"but a great part of me, having escaped decay, will live on after death".

this is a wonderful sentence and it sounds great in Russian :9: (btw you wrote again "часть моя" :mrgreen: )
Derzhavin wrote this when Russian literary language was still very much "under construction", and fragmented into Church Slavonic, popular speech, and a kind of bureaucratic koine. Lomonosov proposed a program for creating a unified literary language, with three registers corresponding to these three varieties. Remarkably, his plan was actually put into practice, and Pushkin deserves much of the credit. Pretty much, whichever elements of Church Slavonic he used in his work, are preserved in modern Russian as part of the "elevated" register. In Derzhavin's line, the words "убежав" and "по смерти" don't sound like Russian to me (we would say "избежав" for escape unless there's physical running involved, and "после" instead of "по"). I believe they reflect Church Slavonic usage, though I'm not sure. In contrast, words like тлен and воздвиг are also Church Slavonic, but they have become part of "poetic" Russian. Now, you probably noticed that Pushkin borrows the word "убежит" in his poem, and this is a rare exception where a word Pushkin uses sounds antiquated. And thanks for giving me an excuse to ramble on for a while. :)
no need to apologize, I love lingustic discussions. And I'm sure some other volunteers love reading about it as well, and if not, it's easy to skip those comments. ;)

Sonia

Kitty
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Post by Kitty » June 14th, 2020, 3:41 am

ToddHW wrote:
June 13th, 2020, 12:53 pm
Do you know how inadequate a discussion like this makes a poor old monolingual guy like me feel? I wish I had had something other than English in my youth - my only exposure to other languages comes from singing and while I might pronounce things correctly if prompted a couple times, I never really know what I am saying.
Todd, you already played a role in a Molière comedy in the ORIGINAL French !!! And you did it very well. Seeing that you don't know the language, this was a feat in itself. Never underestimate your competences.

If you are up for it I can infiltrate you into a German play as well :mrgreen: There are some short DRs running right now. Lots of small roles to claim as well. I trust you can do it just as well as the French if I give you a soundfile.

Sonia

Kitty
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Post by Kitty » June 14th, 2020, 3:44 am

chulsky wrote:
June 13th, 2020, 4:30 pm
Fixed, ready for spot-PL: https://librivox.org/uploads/toddhw/msw024_ashikkerib_lermontov_mch_128kb.mp3 [26:50]
Sorry for not including the link. I read from: https://ru.wikisource.org/wiki/%D0%90%D1%88%D0%B8%D0%BA-%D0%9A%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%B1_(%D0%9B%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%BC%D0%BE%D0%BD%D1%82%D0%BE%D0%B2)
Even though it refers to the 1846 publication, it is still 1937 edition, and I know there are MCs who wouldn't be happy with that. I am really sorry, Sonia, you had to strain your eyes through the blurred copy :(
ah ok, yes you are right, I think we cannot include the wikisource text link. We keep the original blurry text in that case. Anyway, I checked against that source and with all your additions, it's now word perfect with the original source, so it doesn't matter what text you read from. You well lucky this time, but we have to be careful with wikisource texts from later sources, there could have been many more modern edits. Best make sure the texts are the same before you start recording ;)¨

It's PL ok now :) Thanks

Sonia

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