[COMPLETE] Christmas Carol Collection 2016 - mas

[MaryAnnSpiegel]

Maria and Romano,

The Lutheran Hymnal is slapping a copyright claim all over everything, so I'm not comfortable using the text from that site. http://www.lutheran-hymnal.com/about_us/permision_and_copyright.html Unless we can find something on the site that tells what Lutheran Hymnal that text is from, we can't verify it was published before 1923 versus some more modern publication (i.e., 1923 or later).

Can we find another source that includes all the verses? I wonder if you searched for Lutheran Hymnals on Archive or Hathi trust if you could find a print version that has all the verses?

MaryAnn

[Twinkle88]

Sorry to be difficult...

I found this version of In the Bleak Midwinter on Archive, so the song's definitely in the public domain. If I want to play this song on the piano as accompaniment for some singing, do I have to use this version?

[MaryAnnSpiegel]

Twinkle,

The musical accompaniment needs to either be PD itself, or a creation of your own that you release into the PD.

MaryAnn

[commonsparrow3]

Maria and Romano,

The Lutheran Hymnal is slapping a copyright claim all over everything, so I'm not comfortable using the text from that site. http://www.lutheran-hymnal.com/about_us/permision_and_copyright.html Unless we can find something on the site that tells what Lutheran Hymnal that text is from, we can't verify it was published before 1923 versus some more modern publication (i.e., 1923 or later).

Can we find another source that includes all the verses? I wonder if you searched for Lutheran Hymnals on Archive or Hathi trust if you could find a print version that has all the verses?

MaryAnn

I've just spent about an hour searching for a source that includes all the verses. I haven't found any scans of books containing the carol. I've found it on several public domain music sites, which say it is traditional West Indian and therefore public domain, but all of these sites only give the same three verses, including just two of the ones Romano sang, but not the rest of Romano's verses. I can't find any source for the additional verses except the one Romano linked to, which is the Lutheran Hymnal site.

I have tried searching for "when was this carol first published", hoping to get a lead on some hymnbook titles. I've found these two music history references, which claim it first appeared in print in 1945:

The song itself comes from an obscure 1945 book The Edric Connor Collection of West Indian Folk Songs and Tunes. Connor reported he collected it from James Bryce, who gave his age as 94, in 1942.

"The Virgin Mary Had A Baby Boy" is equally unique as what its collector Edric Connor termed "the only West Indian negro carol I found" in his 1945 collection The Edric Connor Collection of West Indian Folk Songs and Tunes.

This is discouraging, as it suggests we are unlikely to find an earlier printing. If we use one of the PD carol sites, we might have to stick with only the three verses they vouch for.

[RomanosMusic]

Hi Maria

Sorry to have given you extra homework.
I too went on a quest to find at least a scanned version of the lyrics, but proved futile.

I think I'll just edit the song. Can I keep the existing 2 PD verses, delete the others, and add the "The angels sang..." verse between the 2?

Romano

[commonsparrow3]

Hi Maria

Sorry to have given you extra homework.
I too went on a quest to find at least a scanned version of the lyrics, but proved futile.

I think I'll just edit the song. Can I keep the existing 2 PD verses, delete the others, and add the "The angels sang..." verse between the 2?

Romano

Yes, you can! I'm so sorry to give you the extra work, Romano, but MaryAnn and I have both been searching, and those seem to be the only three verses that we can reliably verify as PD. It's possible that the other verses were added later. Thank you for understanding, and for being willing to make the adjustment. I do really want to keep some form of your recording in the collection - (just so I have a carol I can dance to!)

[RomanosMusic]

... and here is the edited version

https://librivox.org/uploads/maryannspiegel/cc16_thevirginmaryhadababyboy_arl_128kb.mp3

Text http://www.hymnswithoutwords.com/hymns/The_Virgin_Mary_had_a_baby_boy
Sung in English
By - Unknown - Traditional West Indies Christmas Song

Length 3:21

Regards

Romano

[commonsparrow3]

... and here is the edited version

https://librivox.org/uploads/maryannspiegel/cc16_thevirginmaryhadababyboy_arl_128kb.mp3

Text http://www.hymnswithoutwords.com/hymns/The_Virgin_Mary_had_a_baby_boy
Sung in English
By - Unknown - Traditional West Indies Christmas Song

Length 3:21

Thank you, Romano! You are PL OK (again!) I really appreciate the extra work you did to make the necessary changes. You are a good sport!

[Monaxi]

Here is my other offering:

Link to your recording: https://librivox.org/uploads/maryannspiegel/ccc16_todayisborn_m_128kb.mp3
Link to the text (and music) source: https://books.google.com/books?id=DqbMC9slVq4C&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false
Language: Greek
Title: Today is Born of the Virgin
Duration: 2:39

[commonsparrow3]

Here is my other offering:
Link to your recording: https://librivox.org/uploads/maryannspiegel/ccc16_todayisborn_m_128kb.mp3
Link to the text (and music) source: https://books.google.com/books?id=DqbMC9slVq4C&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false
Language: Greek
Title: Today is Born of the Virgin
Duration: 2:39

Thank you, Sister! This is well worth the waiting! Very lovely chanting, and everything is PL OK!

I see that your Greek hymn in the 2013 collection had the title listed in both English and Greek. Would you like this one also listed in both languages? I can copy and paste a Greek title into the MW if you type it for me.

MaryAnn - I don't know any Greek, but I found a site that will change Greek text into the Latin alphabet, while not changing the Greek words. So I was able to proof-listen the same as I did on the other occasions when I didn't know the language, just going with the sound of the words matching the look of the text. I hope that is good enough basis for marking it PL OK.

[MaryAnnSpiegel]

Perfectly fine to PL that way. That's how I handle most German - recognize the sounds even if the vocabulary baffles me.

MaryAnn

[MaryAnnSpiegel]

Maria,

As we get closer to the end, please feel free to drag and drop the sections in the MW into whatever order you want them to appear in the final project. I'll make sure that the filenames are adjusted catalog in the same order as the MW.

MaryAnn

[commonsparrow3]

Maria,

As we get closer to the end, please feel free to drag and drop the sections in the MW into whatever order you want them to appear in the final project. I'll make sure that the filenames are adjusted catalog in the same order as the MW.

MaryAnn

I've noticed that past collections have usually been arranged in alphabetical order by title. I will re-arrange these the same way, and as new ones arrive, I'll move them into their places.

[Monaxi]

Thank you, Maria! Just leave the title as it is. This hymn is only sung once a year, solo, and I can't be sure I'll get to do it, so it was nice to do it for the collection.

[zwergwolf]

I haven't done much singing around here, but would like to add a popular German song called "Fröhliche Weihnacht überall" to the collection.

Archive has a scan of 1885 here: https://www.archive.org/stream/liederlustundpsa00lieb_0#page/186/mode/2up
The German Wikipedia says the song is a traditional song from England from the 19th century, but no English text is known and the author of the German lyrics is also unknown.
Will that fit into the collection or will we need more information about the author?