[COMPLETE] Le Paradise Perdu de Milton (Chateaubriand) - ava

Solo or group recordings that are finished and fully available for listeners
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Kitty
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Post by Kitty »

chymocles wrote:I want you to know that I consulted Forvo on "astucieuse." Maybe you as a native speaker should vote on the value of this pronunciation, assuming that you hear it as I did.
I don't know this site yet, but I can check it out. It is definitely wrong if pronounced with "sh". I don't think there is any word in French written with "ci" that is ever pronounced "shi", it's simply not how they would write that sound. They would write it "chi" if they wanted to say "shi".
at 40:50: "quoique moulés en terre" (p. 195) - you say "moulés de terre"; arguably this is rather the same meaning though, could be left like this
Forgive my lecture, but I could not resist, for the little word can indeed make a difference!
no I actually liked this bit of info on this poem, thanks, I didn't know that one yet. Of course, you're right, there is a subtle difference, but I did not want to be too picky and since it was nearly the same meaning, I was first reluctant to mention it. But I'm glad now I did, since you put so much value on it. :D
This was most interesting. I did not know that French allowed this double way of referring to the medium of a structure. English does too, though the "in" is quite archaic.
I actually think it sounds a bit archaic in French as well ;)
You will find the corrected file at https://librivox.org/uploads/availle/paradisperdu_13_milton_128kb.mp3. I hope I fixed everything.
all the lines perfectly edited :thumbs: although, I found another error now in one of the corrected lines (sorry)

> at 31:02: "puisse rencontrer quelque objet précieux" (p. 192) - rencontrer is ok now but I I think now you say "spécieux" instead of "précieux", if I'm not mistaken :hmm:

The rest is ok

Sonia
I will be on vacation from Wednesday 27 March till Sunday 14 April
and unable to PL during that time. Thank you for your patience.
chymocles
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Post by chymocles »

Here is the URL of Forvo: https://forvo.com. Is this other site more reliable? I think it must be older: https://www.howtopronounce.com. Are you aware of other such sites?
at 31:02: "puisse rencontrer quelque objet précieux" (p. 192) - rencontrer is ok now but I I think now you say "spécieux" instead of "précieux", if I'm not mistaken :hmm:
Actually, I think you are mistaken here. I was unsure at first since I do as much of my checking as possible at http://www.samizdat.qc.ca/arts/lit/Paradis_perdu.pdf since it is searchable and our preferred Gallica site is not. I have provided the editor with 42 pages of corrections so far. In this case, though, the two texts agree on spécieux.

My apologies for goofing up chef-d'œvre again. I don't expect it to arise again in this poem, but I'll keep it in mind.

Thanks for being so prompt and detailed. We're going to finish this thing!

Tom
Kitty
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Post by Kitty »

chymocles wrote:Here is the URL of Forvo: https://forvo.com. Is this other site more reliable? I think it must be older: https://www.howtopronounce.com. Are you aware of other such sites?
yes the site I actually sometimes use for English words is howtopronounce, I think they often have many samples and if they all agree on the pronunciation I am tending towards believing them LOL
Actually, I think you are mistaken here. I was unsure at first since I do as much of my checking as possible at http://www.samizdat.qc.ca/arts/lit/Paradis_perdu.pdf since it is searchable and our preferred Gallica site is not. I have provided the editor with 42 pages of corrections so far. In this case, though, the two texts agree on spécieux.
:shock: you're right, I made a typing error when I typed up my notes and when I Spot PLed I only checked with what I wrote on the project thread :oops: my error ! Sorry !

The file is PL ok now.
Thanks for being so prompt and detailed. We're going to finish this thing!
oh I'm sure you will and I will stick with you till the end :) What do you think we can expect, time-wise ? 6 more sections left...about 3/4 hour each ? That's between 4 and 5 hours of recording left ?

Sonia
I will be on vacation from Wednesday 27 March till Sunday 14 April
and unable to PL during that time. Thank you for your patience.
chymocles
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Post by chymocles »

Well, Sonia, my actual reading time is considerably longer than it would be if I were reading in English. I am very pleased to learn that you have had no inkling of the elaborate maneuverings I am obliged to employ to get one of these things ready for you to listen to. As things stand, I am severely handicapped in French. My pronunciation is, however, becoming more fluent every day, for I apply myself to the task almost every day, but I expect the completion of the project to be still several months distant.

I am confident that at the end of this epic I will be much more fluent and that my vocabulary will be sufficient to conduct a simple conversation beyond the level of "Veuilliez-vous me conduire au centreville?" and to be able to watch a French mystery on TV without having my eyes glued to the subtitles.

Thanks for nursing me in this effort.

Tom
Kitty
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Post by Kitty »

chymocles wrote:Well, Sonia, my actual reading time is considerably longer than it would be if I were reading in English. I am very pleased to learn that you have had no inkling of the elaborate maneuverings I am obliged to employ to get one of these things ready for you to listen to.
oh you misunderstood me ! I completely sympathize and I don't want to talk small your efforts in doing this project. I am well aware that it will take you much longer to record these sections than for me to read.

I myself am recording a huge amount of "garbage" which needs to be cut out before I have a final recording that is worth listening to. That's why I try to stick to short sections. So probably nobody understands better than I how much work is involved in those recordings.

But what I meant with the time-frame is actually, quite "selflishly", how many hours I would still have to listen to :oops: until we're done, not how many hours you would have to record. Sorry...it was a calculation for my own benefit and not meant to reflect the amount of time input for you.
I am confident that at the end of this epic I will be much more fluent and that my vocabulary will be sufficient to conduct a simple conversation beyond the level of "Veuilliez-vous me conduire au centreville?" and to be able to watch a French mystery on TV without having my eyes glued to the subtitles.
ah you are watching French movies ? Interesting. I hope the subtitles are in French as well. Because you will benefit more if you read the same things they are saying on screen, rather than a translation.

And I am sure you would get around much better in your French holidays than just finding the city centre ;) Is a holiday in France actually planned ? You do know I only live a day's car-travel away from any French city :)

Sonia
I will be on vacation from Wednesday 27 March till Sunday 14 April
and unable to PL during that time. Thank you for your patience.
chymocles
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Post by chymocles »

No, I did not know you even lived in France. However, I am happy to know this, for I am much more likely to visit France than Belgium or even Louisiana, although Québec City and Montréal are definitely on my list. I would like nothing better than to look you up. My last visit to France took me as far south as Aix and was the finest motoring visit I have ever paid.

Tom
Kitty
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Post by Kitty »

chymocles wrote:No, I did not know you even lived in France. However, I am happy to know this, for I am much more likely to visit France than Belgium
ehm...another misunderstanding. I don't live in France but in Luxembourg (tiny country - not famous) but still, the distances are not that far here in Europe. Any French city is reachable by car in at least one day :mrgreen:
I would like nothing better than to look you up. My last visit to France took me as far south as Aix and was the finest motoring visit I have ever paid.
Aix is a BEAUTIFUL city, I once spent a holiday there myself. :9: But yes, look me up if you are in the area, the invitation is standing. Including free tourist guide through Luxembourg. :)

Sonia
I will be on vacation from Wednesday 27 March till Sunday 14 April
and unable to PL during that time. Thank you for your patience.
chymocles
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Post by chymocles »

Well, Sonia, it's been a long time coming, but they have finally bitten the apple. I have some questions for you.
  • Please tell me how you would translate "What if it rains?" Chateaubriand appears to prefer this: "Quoi? Si il pleut?" Seems pretty queer to me.
    Which of the two readings do you prefer at 4:26.5-4:33 and the other two at 11:21-11:29?
I can't decide what the translator means in these places although I think I know what the author meant. Which sounds better to you? I will be guided by your ear.

The file can be found at https://librivox.org/uploads/availle/paradisperdu_14_milton_128kb.mp3.

Tom
Kitty
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Post by Kitty »

ok finally had time to listen to the next part. Well narrated yet again. You gave your voice quite a lascivious tone when Adam and Eve started to have sexual feelings :mrgreen:
chymocles wrote:Please tell me how you would translate "What if it rains?" Chateaubriand appears to prefer this: "Quoi? Si il pleut?" Seems pretty queer to me.
where was this ? :hmm: I can't remember hearing it.

well first of all I would have said "s'il pleut", not "si il". Maybe: "et quoi donc s'il pleut ?" or "et quoi alors s'il pleut ?" I think that would give the English meaning accurately. Dividing the sentence into two bits like you did sounds indeed a bit strange.
Which of the two readings do you prefer at 4:26.5-4:33 and the other two at 11:21-11:29?
I can't decide what the translator means in these places although I think I know what the author meant. Which sounds better to you? I will be guided by your ear.
at 4:26: I would prefer the second reading

at 11:21: I would have put more emphasis on the word "tel". "arrêt" in this case has the meaning of a judicial verdict, not of a "stop", maybe that's why you were puzzled. It means "the day we taste this fruit, THIS will be our verdict, we will die".
So in French: Le jour où nous mangerons de ce beau fruit, TEL est notre arrêt: nous mourrons

I have some other comments still, but not many at all, you did really great !!!

> the volume this time is way too low at 79.6 dB

> at 1:52: (p. 199 bottom) "si elle produit de pareils effets" - it seems to me you are having one syllable too many in "pareils effets". It's strange but I think you say "pareils-ze-zeffets" :hmm:

> at 24:00: (p. 206 middle): “tu es la chair de ma chair” – you say “tu as

> at 30:36: (p. 208 bottom): “Adam ne fit aucun scrupule d’en manger“ – you say “scruple“, mais en français c’est “scru-pu-le“

> at 34:41: (p. 209 bottom): “dont l’enivrante et douce vapeurs“ – you say “é-nivrante“, mais c’est “en-ivrante“ (like in “s’en aller“)

> at 37:43: (p. 210 bottom): “ces célestes formes éblouiront maintenant“ – you say “obluront“

Sonia
I will be on vacation from Wednesday 27 March till Sunday 14 April
and unable to PL during that time. Thank you for your patience.
chymocles
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Post by chymocles »

Thanks, Sonia. I will fix those things right away, but I wanted first to respond to the remarks about "Quoi? Si. . . ." If you do a global search throughout the poem at http://www.samizdat.qc.ca/arts/lit/Paradis_perdu.pdf, you will find enough examples (none involving rain, though). I'm glad you agreed that separating "qua" from "si" seemed unusual. I was afraid that this idiom was so alien to French that Chateaubriand had simply misunderstood it and that if he had understood it he would have written "Supposez que" or the like. So you would not object to my saying simply "Quoi si . . ."? Great.

Tom
Kitty
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Post by Kitty »

chymocles wrote:I was afraid that this idiom was so alien to French that Chateaubriand had simply misunderstood it and that if he had understood it he would have written "Supposez que" or the like. So you would not object to my saying simply "Quoi si . . ."? Great.
yes I think it will sound ok the way you propose. It is a bit odd, but you're right, maybe Chateaubriand didn't understand the expression.

Sonia
I will be on vacation from Wednesday 27 March till Sunday 14 April
and unable to PL during that time. Thank you for your patience.
chymocles
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Post by chymocles »

All fixed, I think: https://librivox.org/uploads/availle/paradisperdu_14_milton_128kb.mp3.

The lack of an exact translation for "What if" fascinates me. Those two words are the doorway to science fiction but also to panic and madness. "Great wits are sure to madness near allied / And thin partitions do their bounds divide." I have noticed that "What if" questions either spur the mind to feats of imagination or stall the mind in a morass of dread. People who repeatedly worry "what if this goes wrong?" and so forth never seem to have any remedy in mind; they are not actually engaging in discussion; they have no plan to propose. They are simply afraid to go forward. Yet the very same words, especially in children, free the mind from the tiresome round of normal expectations to wander into uncharted regions.

Tom
Kitty
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Post by Kitty »

that was fast !!! PL ok now. Nicely fixed
I have noticed that "What if" questions either spur the mind to feats of imagination or stall the mind in a morass of dread. People who repeatedly worry "what if this goes wrong?" and so forth never seem to have any remedy in mind; they are not actually engaging in discussion; they have no plan to propose. They are simply afraid to go forward. Yet the very same words, especially in children, free the mind from the tiresome round of normal expectations to wander into uncharted regions.
this psychological musing is SO TRUE. Excellent thinking. Never thought of it that way, but I totally see what you mean.

I was thinking now, maybe a good translation in French would be, using the "conditionnel": Que serait, si... I think that would bring it home quite accurately.

Sonia
I will be on vacation from Wednesday 27 March till Sunday 14 April
and unable to PL during that time. Thank you for your patience.
chymocles
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Post by chymocles »

Thanks. I might have said that "What if . . ." either frees us to think outside the box or else fastens us tight to our place with fear of what lies outside.

Tom
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Post by chymocles »

I'm uploading the first part of Book 10 now. When you listen to Satan's speech about how he has ruined mankind and secured a new home for his followers, you really must imagine him with orange hair and a mouth perpetually pronouncing the French /u/, and possibly with a smart phone in his hand.

https://librivox.org/uploads/availle/paradisperdu_15_milton_128kb.mp3

Oh, and I have not yet removed the white noise. If it prevents you from hearing properly, I can remove it. It just seems more sensible to save that till I make sure the text is correct.

Cheers,

Tom
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