Esther
[COMPLETE] Work: A Story of Experience/Louisa May Alcott lb
It's best to re record the whole sentence. It makes the paste less obvious.
Esther
Esther
"Reasonable people adapt themselves to the world. Unreasonable
people attempt to adapt the world to themselves. All progress,
therefore, depends on unreasonable people." George Bernard Shaw
people attempt to adapt the world to themselves. All progress,
therefore, depends on unreasonable people." George Bernard Shaw
Hi Daniele,
I'm not sure if someone else has sorted out the 'clown' word for you yet, but you're right, it'd definitely have to be 'down', as you thought. I've seen that error in a few of the on-line books, and I'd be guessing the books had been scanned in using optical character recognition - which could easily mistake a 'cl' for a 'd' or vice versa, since they look similar.
If you don't mind me jumping in, I've had a listen to your recording and thought I might give you some feedback as to the things you were asking about... Your accent certainly is strong, but I actually quite enjoyed hearing it, it adds a rather charming flavour of its own to the recording, and you do pronounce your words clearly, which helps make it easier to understand. I was able to understand most of what you were reading without trouble - however I do agree with you that working on some of your pronunciation in some areas would definitely improve the reading and make it more listenable.
I'll leave it to Esther or whoever decides these things, what they'd recommend for you to do, but you're doing really well (I only wish I could speak a second language anywhere near as well as your English is, and that I could even hope to read whole chapters of books in a foreign language!) and you will only get better and better as you continue.
I noticed a few things in your reading/pronunciation that I'll just mention here as feedback:
- pronouncing 'r', when it comes after a consonant, such as in 'christie'. Your r's seem to be fine when they're at the beginning of a word, but several times when they come after another consonant, I noticed that you would say them like a 'w', sounding more like 'chwistie' instead of 'christie', 'agweed' instead of 'agreed'.
- 'h' at the beginning of pronouns, like 'he', 'her', 'who'. Again, you pronounce the 'h' fine in the beginning of other words, but often you would say 'he' and 'her' more like 'e' and 'er', 'who' like 'oo'. I'm not sure how that's come about, perhaps you've been hearing people that you speak to pronouncing things that way - some English dialects tend to drop the 'h' from those words in informal speech, but for reading it's best you make sure to pronounce the 'h'.
I hope some of this is useful to you.
Violets
I'm not sure if someone else has sorted out the 'clown' word for you yet, but you're right, it'd definitely have to be 'down', as you thought. I've seen that error in a few of the on-line books, and I'd be guessing the books had been scanned in using optical character recognition - which could easily mistake a 'cl' for a 'd' or vice versa, since they look similar.
If you don't mind me jumping in, I've had a listen to your recording and thought I might give you some feedback as to the things you were asking about... Your accent certainly is strong, but I actually quite enjoyed hearing it, it adds a rather charming flavour of its own to the recording, and you do pronounce your words clearly, which helps make it easier to understand. I was able to understand most of what you were reading without trouble - however I do agree with you that working on some of your pronunciation in some areas would definitely improve the reading and make it more listenable.
I'll leave it to Esther or whoever decides these things, what they'd recommend for you to do, but you're doing really well (I only wish I could speak a second language anywhere near as well as your English is, and that I could even hope to read whole chapters of books in a foreign language!) and you will only get better and better as you continue.
I noticed a few things in your reading/pronunciation that I'll just mention here as feedback:
- pronouncing 'r', when it comes after a consonant, such as in 'christie'. Your r's seem to be fine when they're at the beginning of a word, but several times when they come after another consonant, I noticed that you would say them like a 'w', sounding more like 'chwistie' instead of 'christie', 'agweed' instead of 'agreed'.
- 'h' at the beginning of pronouns, like 'he', 'her', 'who'. Again, you pronounce the 'h' fine in the beginning of other words, but often you would say 'he' and 'her' more like 'e' and 'er', 'who' like 'oo'. I'm not sure how that's come about, perhaps you've been hearing people that you speak to pronouncing things that way - some English dialects tend to drop the 'h' from those words in informal speech, but for reading it's best you make sure to pronounce the 'h'.
I hope some of this is useful to you.
Violets
Last edited by Violet on September 18th, 2008, 5:17 am, edited 2 times in total.
Very well, I'll fix it then as soon as someone confirms that the recording is intelligible. I mean can you understand what's being told? what's the point of spending more time editing if this was not intelligible in the first place. just lemme know. (yeah I know standard procedure is to hold off and contact the MC, but lol)
daniele.
edit: all fixed
daniele.
edit: all fixed
Last edited by daniele on September 18th, 2008, 11:29 am, edited 2 times in total.
hey daniele, i didn't realise you were actually here as well! i was editing/expanding my previous post while you were writing your response 
.
i think i've addressed your question partially. i've only been here a short time myself so i'm not sure how this all works... best to wait for the BC to say definitely one way or the other i think. as i was saying, i think most of your words were fine, but there was a sprinkling of words that were difficult to understand, and i don't know what kind of 'standard' they might apply, whether they'd want you to fix some of it up, or maybe they just won't worry about it at all. even with native english speakers there's always words here and there that aren't clear, or pronounced wrongly, after all.
violet
(sorry i lost my capitals, my little fingers got tired)
.i think i've addressed your question partially. i've only been here a short time myself so i'm not sure how this all works... best to wait for the BC to say definitely one way or the other i think. as i was saying, i think most of your words were fine, but there was a sprinkling of words that were difficult to understand, and i don't know what kind of 'standard' they might apply, whether they'd want you to fix some of it up, or maybe they just won't worry about it at all. even with native english speakers there's always words here and there that aren't clear, or pronounced wrongly, after all.
violet
(sorry i lost my capitals, my little fingers got tired
)ah thanks, violet! your feedback is very welcome.
I'll try to work on it anyway, thanks for pointing that out.
I thought this was standard for all accents, but since you said it's not, I shall read all the H's from now on, no problem.
For proof listeners: If there are not clear words, just lemme know the word and the Time, and I'll redo whole sentences one by one.
Sure! I would really appreciate any help to work on that.I was able to understand most of what you were reading without trouble - however I do agree with you that working on some of your pronunciation in some areas would definitely improve the reading and make it more listenable.
This is going to be funny because, traditionally the italian accent is a strong rhotic accent, even when the dialect of English we are learning is nonrhotic. So In order to avoid this typical mistake of ours I've worked hard to banish any R's from my pronunciation, always sticking with the British accent opposite to the Rhotic American one. I try never to put the tongue in an R's position but It seems, sadly enough, that this notion has take over control of all the r's sounds, even those which should be pronounced. If you only heard what strong R's we have in italian, you'd be laughing away by now.- pronouncing 'r', when it comes after a consonant, such as in 'christie'. Your r's seem to be fine when they're at the beginning of a word, but several times when they come after another consonant, I noticed that you would say them like a 'w', sounding more like 'chwistie' instead of 'christie', 'agweed' instead of 'agreed'.
I'll try to work on it anyway, thanks for pointing that out.
Yes this was voluntary, because some time ago while I was following one of those self-teaching audiotapes on standard north American accent , this lady stated that H's in pronouns and very frequent words such as "has, have, her, he", are not to be pronounced during the speech, in contrast to common words like "habitual, hat, hot" which should have a clear 'h'.- 'h' at the beginning of pronouns, like 'he', 'her', 'who'. Again, you pronounce the 'h' fine in the beginning of other words, but often you would say 'he' and 'her' more like 'e' and 'er', 'who' like 'oo'. I'm not sure how that's come about, perhaps you've been hearing people that you speak to pronouncing things that way - some English dialects tend to drop the 'h' from those words in informal speech, but for reading it's best you make sure to pronounce the 'h'.
I thought this was standard for all accents, but since you said it's not, I shall read all the H's from now on, no problem.
For proof listeners: If there are not clear words, just lemme know the word and the Time, and I'll redo whole sentences one by one.
Last edited by daniele on September 18th, 2008, 11:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
daniele Please DO pronounce the rolling 'R'. I love the sound of it. Besides why on earth would you want to sound like an American?? 
Esther
Esther
"Reasonable people adapt themselves to the world. Unreasonable
people attempt to adapt the world to themselves. All progress,
therefore, depends on unreasonable people." George Bernard Shaw
people attempt to adapt the world to themselves. All progress,
therefore, depends on unreasonable people." George Bernard Shaw
I've made some fixes to my recording(like re-reading whole sentences which contained errors). Shall I post the updated file with the same name?
edit: Done. With the same name as suggested. If proof-listeners find other errors, lemme know and I'll fix them.
edit: Done. With the same name as suggested. If proof-listeners find other errors, lemme know and I'll fix them.
Last edited by daniele on September 18th, 2008, 11:33 am, edited 5 times in total.
Same name please. The uploader will rename the first version.
Esther
Esther
"Reasonable people adapt themselves to the world. Unreasonable
people attempt to adapt the world to themselves. All progress,
therefore, depends on unreasonable people." George Bernard Shaw
people attempt to adapt the world to themselves. All progress,
therefore, depends on unreasonable people." George Bernard Shaw
[b]There are no strangers, only friends you haven't met yet.[/b]
Daniele, you've already had me grinning and laughing away several times at your jokes and funny descriptions about your recording progress.I try never to put the tongue in an R's position but It seems, sadly enough, that this notion has take over control of all the r's sounds, even those which should be pronounced. If you only heard what strong R's we have in italian, you'd be laughing away by now.
When I read that last passage I tried to imagine you rrrrrrr-olling your r's, e.g. 'a grrrrrr-eat tearrrrrr rrrrrr-olled down her cheek' . Fantastic!!! heheI think Esther is right, go ahead and roll your r's! I guess as you spend more and more time speaking and listening in English you'll probably naturally adapt and do it less. In any case the way you say your r's at the beginning of words, in the recording you made, was pretty clear, and 'un-rolled', lol... So you can take your pick really. You can work at aiming for 'straight' r's, or you can go for the Italian roll and thrill the ladies
.Re: h's, I am guessing that what the lady on your tape meant, was that often in normal speech, people may drop the 'h' (but not necessarily every time) at the start of words like have, has, his, her - especially when speaking quickly. So you might hear someone say, 'I've done this (I have done this); She's gone (she has gone); Give 'er this (Give her this), etc.' Most people do it at least a little bit here and there, some accents do it a whole lot. In general I'd say it's just something that happens naturally with faster, casual speech. I wouldn't worry about trying to do it yourself, but rather just try to be aware of it so that you know what other people are saying when they slur two words together and drop the 'h'. While you're learning and while making yourself clear/intelligible is a main issue, pronouncing the 'h' is clearer.
As far as working on improving your pronunciation, I'd say one of the best things would be to listen to other people's recordings, perhaps while following along with the text if it helps. It might also be least confusing for you if you try and select readings that are all in similar accents to start with, and model your pronunciation on one general type of accent, rather than picking up different words from different accents, which would make it hard to develop a pattern that you could get used to.
There's also this language exchange site that I stumbled across a while ago and thought looked fantastic... Have you heard of this place? http://www.mylanguageexchange.com/VoiceChat.asp
People go in and find partners to exchange language lessons/practice with, and there are people from every country, from English-speaking countries you can choose a variety of accents... If this was of interest to you, you could always set up an exchange with someone who wanted to practice their Italian, and you could get them to go through your readings or whatever you like, with you and tweak any words you're unsure of... I don't know if that's your thing, but just an idea anyway.
Also I don't know if you use the on-line dictionaries, I usually go to http://www.merriam-webster.com/ if there's a word I don't know how to pronounce. You type the word you want into the search box, and if you click on the audio button it will speak the word for you (in an American accent).
I was thinking about this last night and it occurred to me, that if you are concerned about people having trouble understanding you, one solution could be to start by recording short stories or short non-fiction pieces, or poems. They get put out in 'collections' - however each piece stands alone. That way, those people who love your accent can go ahead and enjoy it, those who might have difficulty following can just skip over to the next file without missing any continuity, and you can enjoy recording to your heart's content.
Violet
Last edited by Violet on September 18th, 2008, 7:52 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Sadclown,
I just saw the note in the top post about keeping in touch once a month, and realised I'd been a month since signing on for my chapter. I've recorded mine but haven't gotten round to editing it yet, so hopefully won't be too much longer
Violet
I just saw the note in the top post about keeping in touch once a month, and realised I'd been a month since signing on for my chapter. I've recorded mine but haven't gotten round to editing it yet, so hopefully won't be too much longer
Violet
Violet I owe you for all your help, if you ever consider to start learning Italian regard me as your teacher 
Anyway here some quick answers to the main topics:
You wouldn't believe how many hours, I think we can safely say months if we sum up the hours, of audiobooks I've listened to just to get to this rotten, ugly, heavily accented stage. Listening surely improves your comprehension till you can understand words before even the speaker say them, and you certainly get vague hunches of what's right and wrong to say while pronouncing words. But it's all useless, I mean the accent thing is too strong. It clings to you and it won't be shaken off or buried out of sight.(lol I'm not quoting Alcott here).
And yes I already have language exchange buddies learning Italian and helping me out with English... all, all u-s-e-l-e-s-s or at least not very incisive.
As for the dictionary, yes I was already using dictionary.com to hear the American pronunciation and Longman Dictionary to read the English one with the IPA alphabet(longman has the good thing of always writing down both American and English pronunciation); anyway you should understand that I can't look up every word or it would never end; for most of the words I've just to rely on my memory and my vague understanding of the dumb English sound system(because those who made it in first place must have been without the hearing sense or unable to speak) . I usually search only words I've never heard or which are very hazy in my memory.
regards, daniele.
Anyway here some quick answers to the main topics:
You wouldn't believe how many hours, I think we can safely say months if we sum up the hours, of audiobooks I've listened to just to get to this rotten, ugly, heavily accented stage. Listening surely improves your comprehension till you can understand words before even the speaker say them, and you certainly get vague hunches of what's right and wrong to say while pronouncing words. But it's all useless, I mean the accent thing is too strong. It clings to you and it won't be shaken off or buried out of sight.(lol I'm not quoting Alcott here
).And yes I already have language exchange buddies learning Italian and helping me out with English... all, all u-s-e-l-e-s-s or at least not very incisive.
As for the dictionary, yes I was already using dictionary.com to hear the American pronunciation and Longman Dictionary to read the English one with the IPA alphabet(longman has the good thing of always writing down both American and English pronunciation); anyway you should understand that I can't look up every word or it would never end; for most of the words I've just to rely on my memory and my vague understanding of the dumb English sound system(because those who made it in first place must have been without the hearing sense or unable to speak) . I usually search only words I've never heard or which are very hazy in my memory.
regards, daniele.
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aradlaw
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Section 20 is PL OK
That was a long listen
That was a long listen
David Lawrence
* Weekly & Fortnightly Poetry - Check out the Short Works forum for the latest projects!
* Weekly & Fortnightly Poetry - Check out the Short Works forum for the latest projects!
Wow, look at all the activity while I was sick!!!
Daniele, I gave a listen to your recording and thought it was quite good. There are all sorts of readers on librivox with all different accents. Personally I love the variety! I think you are relatively clear and I could understand your words even with the accent. Good job, keep up the good work, practice will only make things easier! Would you like to try another chapter?
Daniele, I gave a listen to your recording and thought it was quite good. There are all sorts of readers on librivox with all different accents. Personally I love the variety! I think you are relatively clear and I could understand your words even with the accent. Good job, keep up the good work, practice will only make things easier! Would you like to try another chapter?